La Pavoni lever + not freshly roasted beans = Useless machine.
Better use a cheap Saeco.

I am going to keep looking for the right beans.

I agree the beans freshness (roast) is a big issue. I tried using canned Illy beans and the shots where bad.
I will try fresh beans from the local shop again.

Is there any brand of packed beans that can be good enough (all are good for automatic machines) or should I look for a local shop that has good fresh beans?

Generally speaking, commercially available, packaged beans are not freshly roasted.

As a rule of thumb: if you can't actually find the roast date on the packaging somewhere, it's probably not fresh.

The shots should NOT be bad with canned Illy beans - they won't by any means be superb, but assuming your grind is OK, your technique (including distribution and tamping) OK and your Europiccola working OK you should be able to get something better than in most "mainstream" bars.

I hope I'm not back to square one...

I could not get good results with Illy canned beans and if I should have then it might be something wrong the machine.
It seems my grinding (the manual KyM grinder I'm using should be good enough), tamping and dosing are OK and I still can't get decent shots even with different kinds of beans.

I did see big difference between old and fresh beans but even with ones that should be fresh I can't get a good enough shot. The shots are either under extracted or over extracted. It seems a bit strange to me that it should take such an effort and accuracy to get a decent shot.

I'll will keep trying different beans just to be sure this is not the problem.

Don't assume anything is wrong with the machine until you've tried beans that are actually fresh - not just recently opened, but freshly roasted.

And in terms of effort and accuracy required? Welcome to the world of manual lever machines!

sbenyo wrote:I could not get good results with Illy canned beans

It has been just the same with me. I always got bad shots with my Europiccola and canned beans (albeit not Illy). Worse than with my Pavoni si (pressurized portafilter). And worse than in bars. May be I have bad technique ...or good bars

Canned beans certainly aren't ideal but they're much better than pre-ground. Even Illy preground isn't really fine enough for a lever machine and that's a finer grind than Lavazza.

There's no doubt that you will get better results with freshly roasted beans, but I wouldn't rule out the grinder or grind setting either, or something else. Any chance of taking a picture of some of the ground coffee on a sheet of white paper? That might help. You can also try pinching/rubbing some between your fingers. It should feel almost like flour, but still gritty. Is the grinder clean? Is the machine clean inside behind the screen?

What I'm finding difficult is your description of the coffee tasting sour rather than bitter sbenyo....

All that said, you have already seen that simply changing the beans results in a big improvement, so I would persist in trying to find some freshly roasted beans and work on your technique in the meantime. I'm sure someone in Israel must roast fresh and deliver by post at the very least. That's how I get hold of some truly wonderful stuff over here.

So for the time being, I'd just change one variable at a time....

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend canned beans to anyone over the "real thing", but still feel (actually know) that this coffee should be looking better than it is, even if one is grinding Illy canned beans - unless it's a can from the sixties.....

I've used a Pav to make coffee using Illy preground, for goodness sake, and it sill looked and tasted passable....

The coffee in the UK is generally garbage, notwithstanding a few stars in the firmament. There's a decent roaster in Brighton, but the coffee served in their bar isn't brilliant. There's one Italian restaurant that know exactly what they're doing, thank goodness, and a little chap with a delicatessen who makes something drinkable. Otherwise there are now plenty of places with nice equipment but either bad beans or bad technique or generally both. So it's not tough to do better.....

Cheers

Mike

Here are photos of the grind and result.
I used the illy beans again. When touching the grind it feels soft like powder.







The result:




Before the shot I touched and group head and it seems hot but touchable.
During the shot I waited the 10 seconds with no drip. The level pressure during the shot was not hard enough.

I tried a second shot with the same grind. This time the group head seemed to be hotter.
I also turned off and on the machine for 1 min between shots until the grind was ready.
This time the result looks better.




Does it seem to be a grinding level problem or am I missing anything else?

Humour me and see what happens.

1) Grind

Grind a little finer. Tamp using the force of your forearm only. Try initially applying pressure with your thumbs on either side of the tamper and your fingers underneath. Concentrate on making the puck surface level and on firmly compacting the grinds, without trying to crush them into a tablet. Resist the urge to twist. You could even give this a try just use the thumb tamp and noting more vigorous.

If the lever moves down fast, grind finer still. It should feel like you're squeezing butter through a colander.

2) Maybe let the machine heat up a little more. You could be too frightened of overheating. It is an issue on the Pavoni but not a ticking bomb. The group head should be too hot to hold and indeed too hot to do anything but briefly touch. If it is so hot that you pull your finger away in shock after a brief touch, then it is too hot. These are not fixed sensations. Some people are more sensitive, some people less. You will notice the taste change as the group head heats up, and that is no less important an indicator. I can't be 100% sure from the photos but it may be that your Kym is not grinding as consistently as one would like. Has it been checked out by anyone like Orphan Espresso in the States? Not all hand grinders are up to the job of grinding for espresso, irrespective of how illustrious the make and especially if that is not what they were intended for!

3) Keep up the search for fresh beans and let us know how you get along. If you do find a local roaster who roasts for espresso, see if you can hunt down a coffee enthusiast customer of theirs in your area with a big grinder who you can visit with your Pavoni and a bag of beans. If the roaster/coffee shop owner/staff are themselves espresso enthusiasts it is likely that they will help you with this.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers

Mike