calb wrote:First efforts with the single basket loaded with 8 to 9 gr are giving a bit thinner crema than the double basket. Is this expectable or am I doing something wrong?

Sounds like you may have coarsened the grind a bit too much. Try a shot or two near your normal double range, then move back just a hair. I tend to make the grind more coarse, because it often leads to more clarity in SO shots. You may like it better at your typical grind setting. Also back down from the 9 grams, aim for 7-8. Especially if you try it with a finer grind. 9 grams in the single will often lead to a choke, and if it doesn't it is usually hitting the shower screen, which can lead to some serious channeling.

I am new to the home-barista world, and also new to making espresso with a real machine. I've had some of the cheaper home models in the past, but just upgraded to a La Pavoni Millenium (51mm group) machine and a Rancilio Rocky grinder. I have been pulling some decent shots lately, inconsistent of course, but drinkable. I am wondering if anyone else, with a La Pavoni, has had a similar experience with tamper size. I have a stainless 51mm tamper from espressoparts.com, but it seems to be too small for the La Pavoni baskets. If I put the tamper all the way to one side of the basket (double is the only one I have been using), I still have at least 1-2mm of space on the other side. When I tamp, I put the tamper directly into the middle of the basket and tamp, and then have to clear "untamped" coffee off the sides of the basket. It seems like a 52mm would do a more complete job, unless my results are what I am supposed to be getting. Any thoughts out there?

brischdc wrote:...I have a stainless 51mm tamper from espressoparts.com, but it seems to be too small for the La Pavoni baskets. If I put the tamper all the way to one side of the basket (double is the only one I have been using), I still have at least 1-2mm of space on the other side. When I tamp, I put the tamper directly into the middle of the basket and tamp, and then have to clear "untamped" coffee off the sides of the basket. It seems like a 52mm would do a more complete job, unless my results are what I am supposed to be getting. Any thoughts out there?

Brian, I've got a Gaggia Factory 16 (basically a clone of the La Pav Pro) with the 51mm group. I've also got an EP-5 tamper, 51mm from EPNW. The tamper is exactly 51mm and it goes about 70% of the way down into my double basket before stopping. I get some of the grinds to the sides of the basket that you're talking about but haven't been worrying about it. Before my EP-5 arrived I was using a 49mm curved tamper I'd gotten years ago from $Bux. The big thing I saw with the EP-5 was an improvement in consistency from the $B tamper.

On the single basket bit, I've begun doing some experimenting with it (right now using a CCC El Salvidor SO) and seen some fairly good results... Not as good as I'd like, but then I'm not down to the 7-8 grams yet (I'll have to try that tonight). Full basket, stockfleth'd, gives me about 10.4 grams. Nice but not exactly what I was looking for, but the journey continues.

EDIT: I should have mentioned the internal diameter of the double basket I'm using (the stock double that came with the machine). 51.65mm at the top edge (actually about 5mm down from the very top. that's where my calipers want to sit! ).

have to clear "untamped" coffee off the sides of the basket

I feel your pain. I have a pre-millenium Pavoni but for a long time struggled with a stock 49mm tamper. It's a pain getting those excess grinds out from the basket sides. Eventually I sent a basket off and had a tamper made to fit. It's made quite a difference. I think 52mm might be too big for your millenium and would suggest getting a tamper made to fit. For me it was worth the expense.

brischdc wrote:I have a stainless 51mm tamper from espressoparts.com, but it seems to be too small for the La Pavoni baskets. If I put the tamper all the way to one side of the basket (double is the only one I have been using), I still have at least 1-2mm of space on the other side. When I tamp, I put the tamper directly into the middle of the basket and tamp, and then have to clear "untamped" coffee off the sides of the basket. It seems like a 52mm would do a more complete job, unless my results are what I am supposed to be getting. Any thoughts out there?

Hi Brian, and welcome to H-B. I've been using a 51mm EPNW tamper with a Pavoni Millenium, similar 1-2mm gap at the top of the basket, and the fit seems OK to me. You have to expect some clearance, or the piston might bind partway down the basket. A 1mm gap is roughly the thickness of a dime, and IMHO nothing to be concerned about. That's barely 0.5mm clearance between the piston and the basket walls, less than 1% of the basket diameter. If the gap is more than 2mm I'd suggest using the Staub (NSEW) tamping style, and looking into a custom tamper.

I figured I would bring this thread back up since we do have some new users.

TUS172, I agree it is a useful thread, especially for someone who plans to rehab a burned out pre-2000 Europiccola. (me)

What I would like to know is how some guys seem to get 30ml from one pull using the double basket? I don't think I can do even half that with my machine, maybe I'm grinding too fine.

Stuggi wrote:What I would like to know is how some guys seem to get 30ml from one pull using the double basket? I don't think I can do even half that with my machine, maybe I'm grinding too fine.

Are you actually measuring your espressos? Because 30 ml is a very small quantity, less than half a cup for most cup models...
Anyway it's a fact that grinding coarser will give you a slightly larger volume.

There are two points to watch for when trying to get a long 30ml extraction.
1. Don't be tempted to over full the basket. For me it always needs to be at least 5-6mm down from the lip. If the basket is over fulled then you run the risk of disturbing the puck face when loading engaging the PF and, depending on your tamp weight, not getting good thorough preinfusion of the puck ie less water in the chamber.
2. The best draws are when there is good pressure right from the top of the stroke. ie no air or springyness in the initial stroke. This is a bit of a struggle. I have achieved the best results with a long preinfusion 30sec after the fellini stroke or a larger number, 4-5, of fellini strokes. There doesn't have to be a rush to start the draw, though once started it seems to pay to keep a flow going keeping an eye on the colour to determine whether to increase or decrease the stroke rate.
at the end of the stroke there should be a mixture of very dark oils from the initial pour through to the lighter crema of the end stroke giving that lovely tiger stipple.
The other technique that I have observed is that the machine needs to be on for at least 30min (this is a millenium with better heat capabilities than the pre-) to improve the air removal.
Cheers