homeburrero wrote:On a pro, or on an EPC modded with a pressure gauge, there is an advantage to keeping a higher pStat setting -- You can watch the gauge and use the off switch to brew at whatever pressure you like for a particular blend, and you can turn it back on for forceful steaming. My pro's pStat kicks on at .85 bar, but I generally brew down at .6 or .7

Agreed completely.

If anyone looking at this thinks it's complicated, there are a few ways to work with these home levers to get the temperature where you want it. It's kind of like cooking. There may be a few ways to pull a recipe together.

WSH wrote:And I agree the digital thermometers are better, more precise, faster reacting and an all around a better solution. FWIW, I have that installed too, however, it won't win any awards for elegance. OTOH, for simplicity's sake and a more streamlined install, it's hard to beat the strips.

FWIW I've worked with both too. I like to switch between different coffees and have a hard time seeing the temperature strip. The temp strip only indicates a 5 degree F range and as I'm trying to read it, it sometimes indicates two adjacent temperatures. Since the thermometer costs about $10 it's comparably cheap and offers the degree of precision in my pulls that makes the difference. As I use it the temp strip is much harder to use. For elegance of install, if you're a craftsman you'll figure out a way to do it better than me. Or, if you want a really easy install, you can attach it like AndyPanda does, where he uses an elastic ponytail band from the local pharmacy and a little bit of foam over the thermometer's sensing end. He's the one who taught me how to do this and it was a breakthrough for dialing in my Pavoni shots with precision.

Pat & Gary

Ok, I'm with you on the temp surfing but why turn up the pressure, temperature, just to turn the machine off to bring it back down? I can only assume it's for more steaming power? The additional pressure for preinfusion seems trivial by comparison and you could always use the lever to help bump that up too.

FWIW, I'm bumping it up right now as I type, mostly out of curiosity and some more power to steam with using the stock 3 hole tip. Simple enough to go back if I don't like it. Kind of surprised though how far I've had to turn the screw to get the desired results. Took a full 1.5 turns to bring the pressurestat from idling at .75, to idling now at .87, and topping out @.95 . We'll see!

Thanks you two.

Pressure adjusted, well monitored and my temporary install.

The later versions of La Pavoni 1974-2000 group portafilters initially are supplied with a "screw on" two spout fitting that has a straight ROUND hole drilled through the fitting so that water can come out each spout. The diameter of the hole is such that there are no standard metric taps that can be used to thread it, but there is an ASA one that matches the hole size quite well. It can be used to thread one side of the spout.

One can then get a brass screw (or use a die to make a threaded brass rod) to fit this. Then one can drill a small hole all the way down the axis of this screw or threaded rod.

One could get a thermister and run the leads through the screw and fill the hole in the screw with a non-toxic polymer like the "silicone" cement to make a seal and hold the thermister in place. One could put the screw with the thermister on its end into the hole in one side of the spout and connect it to a resistance measuring multimeter, they are inexpensive these days.

One could then monitor the temperature of the espresso as it emerges. It should be possible to find spouts that fit other spouted portafilters that could be drilled like this too. It would let one know just what the temperatures are for those "great" shots to make it possible to get a feel about how to get them all the time! Unfortunately, however, this only permits monitoring during the shot, but the information is still valuable.

The probes of some meat thermometers have small enough diameters that they can be inserted into a hole in a screw, rather than use delicate thermisters, though the "naked" thermisters certainly give a faster response.

Nice!

drgary wrote:For elegance of install, if you're a craftsman you'll figure out a way to do it better than me.

WSH wrote:Pat & Gary

Ok, I'm with you on the temp surfing but why turn up the pressure, temperature, just to turn the machine off to bring it back down? I can only assume it's for more steaming power? The additional pressure for preinfusion seems trivial by comparison and you could always use the lever to help bump that up too.

I do this so I can get the temperature high enough for light roasted coffee, not for steaming. But the main reason is my machine has always been set to 0.85 bar and it has always worked well, so I'm not messing with it. Now that I know how to do a partial pump to raise pressure, I expect that will work too. As I wrote earlier it's nice to have a few tricks in your bag when you're cooking. For my MCAL it's set higher than that (different machine, different need) so I can handle lighter roasts and I sometimes toggle off when switching coffees.

Ok, what's your target for the lighter roasts with the Pavoni? With the Strega, 205-207(no flush) seems to work well for the lighter SO. Of course it's a bit of apples to pineapples comparison, using the vibe pump in the Strega to pre-infuse up to 11 bars or so.

For a very light, lemony roast I might start as high as 196-197 on my group thermometer and expect it to rise through the pull to over 202 or 203F. Keep in mind that's reading the group, not the coffee cake. I would expect these optimal brewing temperatures to be consistent over machines and there's no way a Pavoni will create the nuanced shot you could get with a commercial lever group, especially with high pre-infusion pressure. I may be able to equal that high initial pressure on the Conti Prestina because you can help the lever. This wouldn't be on pre-infusion but could apply to the start of the pull.

WSH wrote:Ok, I'm with you on the temp surfing but why turn up the pressure, temperature, just to turn the machine off to bring it back down? I can only assume it's for more steaming power? The additional pressure for preinfusion seems trivial by comparison and you could always use the lever to help bump that up too.

My biggest reason is steaming, but I also think it's worthwhile for control. I have a thermometer rig (very inelegant - it straps to the group using a leather bicycle toestrap) but generally just rely on my temp strip - I pump it up to where the 90C on the front of the group is beginning to show color. Then if I want to try a couple degrees hotter or cooler than usual I can do that with the boiler pressure. (1/10 bar difference is just under a 2C difference in boiler temp.)

I agree that the effect on pre-infusion force is probably negligible, and it's easy to use the lever to force a pressured preinfusion.

Gary & Pat,

Thanks again!

WSH wrote:Hey, get a scale! A gram either way can be a BIG deal.

My La Pav Pro is very dose and grind sensitive. I have this one and it works great, at least so far?

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Si ... gram+scale

The scale is here and it's perfect. I'd mention that it is a steal at that price, but the matter of good crema will not be constrained by financial details.

My wife has always hated the Rancilio grinder, so it will go to eBay along with the Silvia.

I have a Pharos grinder on order and am eagerly awaiting the shipping confirmation. The irony here is the thing that drove me to the LP-16 was no crema out of the Silivia, and it's probably the grinder.

Even though I'm in a wrestling match with the LP for good crema, I know I will get this dialed in and then I'll have a bomb-proof process

jwCrema wrote:Even though I'm in a wrestling match with the LP for good crema, I know I will get this dialed in and then I'll have a bomb-proof process

You will get it dialed in and when you do you'll be amused at how it seemed so hard. Getting crema from my Pavonis is completely easy and reliable. Congratulations on choosing a Pharos!