I'm having similar issues with crema on my LP PC-16, I've read about every post on every web site on the topic and the advice is all over the place. My crema looks like MaHosta's, if I am lucky enough to get any. The beans I'm using are from a local espresso place that roasts their own. When they make espresso with their beans it tastes better than what I've been able to do so far.

I'm using a Rancilio Rocky doserless grinder - and am fooling around with the grind between 10 and 14. The Rocky won't grind less than "10" on my basket/machine, so the coffee is of very fine texture. I've acquired a Concept Art tamper that's calibrated for consistent pressure. I'm doing about 30 lbs pressure on tamping.

I find that with the two shot basket I get about one shot worth of juice. I'm doing the lever up 3/4 to pre-heat, pulling the shot at .75 on the dial. After about 45 seconds of the lever all the way to the top, I get some drips. I pull the lever through with what I think is normal pressure. It pulls smoothly, except in the last 1/4 of the pull when it gets spongy. Is 1oz of espresso the same volume you're getting?

With other machines I had, you could see the crema change color through the shot, and if you stopped at the point the color changed, you had a perfect shot. With the La Pavoni, most of the "crema" is very blonde colored, and no where near that chocolate brown color, and never turns a darker color. This leads me to wonder if my machine is running on the cool side? Is there a way for an owner to tweak where the machine runs at pressure wise?

I work in a field science, so I get the idea of consistency. The only thing I haven't done is get a scale to weigh the amount of coffee.

Is Mahosta's crema dialed in now?

If it is taking you 45 seconds to get drips in the cup your grind is too fine or your dose is too high and maybe you're also tamping too hard. You should see drips after about 10 to 15 seconds or so. As I wrote above the grind needs to be sufficiently coarse to yield crema, and once you get that going a Pavoni will perform very well. Also it's common for people with lever machines to do only a leveling tamp. Plus if your pull is spongy you are probably not preflushing to release trapped air from the group before you lock in the portafilter.

jwCrema wrote: I work in a field science, so I get the idea of consistency. The only thing I haven't done is get a scale to weigh the amount of coffee......

Hey, get a scale! A gram either way can be a BIG deal.

My La Pav Pro is very dose and grind sensitive. I have this one and it works great, at least so far?

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Si ... gram+scale

What coffee are you using? Fresh coffee is paramount. I've found 12-13 grams, depending on what type of coffee, is what works best for me and my taste. I grind fine/coarse enough that I see some drips right around the end of a 10 second pre-infusion or immediately thereafter when first applying ANY pressure.

If your leaving the lever up and pre-infusing for 45 seconds, your overheating everything. 5-10 second per- infusion is all that is necessary. Any longer is doing more harm than good.

.75 pressure is fine, that's what mine is and I have absolutely no problem getting plenty of rich, thick, crema with fresh coffee.

These temperature strips are an inexpensive solution that allow you to somewhat control the group temperature for each shot.

http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Effex-08- ... sbs_auto_2

Between multiple shots, I use a small cup of water held up under the bottom of the group to act as heat sink. Like quenching a forged knife blade. Works incredibly fast and only takes 15 seconds or so to drop the group temperature dramatically, from the mid 220's back below 190 or less. Those strips allow you to see the results and let you adjust accordingly. I put one strip on the front of the group and one on the gooseneck from the boiler to the group. Two is probably overkill but, nothing exceeds like excess!

WSH wrote:Hey, get a scale! A gram either way can be a BIG deal.

My La Pav Pro is very dose and grind sensitive.

+1

WSH wrote:I've found 12-13 grams, depending on what type of coffee, is what works best for me and my taste.

This can vary. It depends on whether you have a pre-Millennium or Millennium machine (larger group). Experiment. I like ristretto shots and may dose 14 or 15 gm in my pre-M with an Elektra basket and 16 + gm in the Millennium.

WSH wrote:I grind fine/coarse enough that I see some drips right around the end of a 10 second pre-infusion or immediately thereafter when first applying ANY pressure.

Yes! You don't want to be pushing too hard, like pushing a knife through frozen butter.

WSH wrote:.75 pressure is fine....

Again it depends. My Millennium is perfectly dialed in at 0.85 bar.

WSH wrote:These temperature strips are an inexpensive solution that allow you to somewhat control the group temperature for each shot.

I've tried those and far prefer the inexpensive group thermometer that gives very close control. The thermometer is also much faster to respond.

Again it depends. My Millennium is perfectly dialed in at 0.85 bar.

Could you elaborate some on "perfectly dialed in" and what that means to you. I wasn't clear earlier but I also have a Millennium as well and am at sea level. Doesn't higher pressure mean more heat? Putting steaming milk aside for the moment, I was actually thinking of turning my pstat down. I believe I want just enough pressure to feed the group but, as little as possible to help with the overheating. What am I missing?

And I agree the digital thermometers are better, more precise, faster reacting and an all around a better solution. FWIW, I have that installed too, however, it won't win any awards for elegance. OTOH, for simplicity's sake and a more streamlined install, it's hard to beat the strips.

I use an old Ohaus "Dial-o-gram" balance which I rescued from a dumpster when I noticed it lying amongst the other discarded trash. After cleaning it thoroughly and making some repairs and adjustments it works wonderfully. I prefer things like this to electronic devices in the kitchen because they are much more robust, so I only use this to weigh coffee. One can occasionally find these for sale in consignment antique shops and online auctions, but they cost more than finding one in a dumpster! This device is always persent when I make espresso, and I view it as critical.

Crema is certainly dose and grind specific. The coffee must be fresh. Too fine or too coarse and there will be little crema. I like 14 to 15 grams for the 1974-2000 group La Pavoni and the Elektra Mcal both. Crema is also very roast sensitive. There is an optimal degree of roasting, in fact. Coffee ashes tend to give little crema, as do beans that are not roasted enough. Robusta added always seems to increase crema. If one put 10 grams of arabica in the filter basket, tamp it, and then put 4 or 5 grams of robusta on top, rather than mix it, the result is excellent. (Do not do it the other way around, to me that results in your getting the worst flavours of both coffee species.) I always roast my own coffee. I roast robusta using a wok. Otherwise I usually use a Nesco-it roasts just the right batch size for me.

Scale ordered - I have no idea how much 13g of ground espresso is by eyeball.

I held the lever up at 3/4 to pre-heat the head for 7 sec (1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, 3 mississippi,....).

I tried the leveling tamp, and got a lot of shot volume, but less crema than ever despite three different grind settings.

I am doing a low pressure tamp and experimenting with the grind. I found that making the grind a bit coarser resulted in more crema, along with a low pressure tamp made more crema than I've seen so far. But I'm not getting drips after the lever is fully up soon enough. Once I have the dosage of espresso consistent, I'll know how to dial in the grind.

I'm using whole espresso beans from the local shop and they pour almost 1/2 of the shot as crema with it, and I'm grinding it seconds before the shot is pulled so I feel the beans aren't the wildcard right now.

I had a Rancilio Silvia, but it lacked the level of control and feedback that I wanted to get the killer shots I used to get out of the crude machine I had 20 years ago. I can tell that there is some serious upside in this machine once I get the process down.

My wife thinks the flavor is fabulous right now, and holds her cup with both hands like someone might take it away. Thank you very much for your very helpful suggestions!

jwCrema wrote:I'm having similar issues with crema on my LP PC-16, I've read about every post on every web site on the topic and the advice is all over the place. My crema looks like MaHosta's, if I am lucky enough to get any.

I'm using a Rancilio Rocky doserless grinder - and am fooling around with the grind between 10 and 14.

I could never get more than a thin crema with my Europiccola and Ranclio Rocky combination. Than I bought an OE Pharos grinder and I have gotten oodles of crema ever since, with the same 1999 LP-8.

+1 about the Pharos.

WSH wrote:Could you elaborate some on "perfectly dialed in" and what that means to you. I wasn't clear earlier but I also have a Millennium as well and am at sea level. Doesn't higher pressure mean more heat? Putting steaming milk aside for the moment, I was actually thinking of turning my pstat down. I believe I want just enough pressure to feed the group but, as little as possible to help with the overheating. What am I missing?

At that PSTAT setting, checked with an Orphan Espresso steam wand manometer, the machine is in this zone for easy temperature control. I'm not saying 0.85 bar is the only acceptable setting. That's where mine is and it works like I want it. Also for being able to adjust temperature to different coffees it needs to be able to get a little too hot sometimes so you can cool it into range, which I do by dipping the portafilter in water.

La Pavoni Millennium Owners, Are Temperature Problems Solved?

WSH wrote:Could you elaborate some on "perfectly dialed in" and what that means to you. I wasn't clear earlier but I also have a Millennium as well and am at sea level. Doesn't higher pressure mean more heat? Putting steaming milk aside for the moment, I was actually thinking of turning my pstat down. I believe I want just enough pressure to feed the group but, as little as possible to help with the overheating. What am I missing?

Yes, more pressure means higher temp (I think you knew that already) and is charted out nicely in this post by Eric S:
How does high altitude affect brewing?

You will get more forceful pre-infusion at the higher pressure, and you can still control your shot temp by going with a cooler group temp to offset the hotter boiler. FWIW the nominal factory setting for new La Pavoni Pro, EPC, and Strad machines is .7 - .8 bar (according to La Pavoni's latest brochures.)

On a pro, or on an EPC modded with a pressure gauge, there is an advantage to keeping a higher pStat setting -- You can watch the gauge and use the off switch to brew at whatever pressure you like for a particular blend, and you can turn it back on for forceful steaming. My pro's pStat kicks on at .85 bar, but I generally brew down at .6 or .7