RayJohns wrote:I'm actually uploading a video about steaming milk on the La Pavoni right now. I'll post it later on tonight or tomorrow.

Ray

Cool. My milk steaming technique has actually been getting better. It's the only thing that has been able to redeem my horrible shots of espresso. I watched one of your long videos again last night.

WestTexasDerek wrote:Cool. My milk steaming technique has actually been getting better. It's the only thing that has been able to redeem my horrible shots of espresso. I watched one of your long videos again last night.

I've switched to drinking lattes lately (as opposed to straight espresso), since I'm a little burned out on espresso and also since my girlfriend loves lattes. Anyway, since I have been making them more and more, I have been working on improving my milk frothing technique. Here's a video I made tonight while playing around. Not the best extraction (my grind was off by a click), but the milk part was the main focus (and it came out pretty nice I thought)



Ray

Hi Ray,

I have a "new" 1970's espresso machine as my first machine...I only got it cleaned up well enough to use on Tuesday, so this is really day 3 with it. Day 1 was a sequence of sink shots, Day 2 I got drinkable but not good shots and I tried steaming the first time to make lattes...which actually turned out ok even I used a mug to froth in since I dont have any proper pitchers yet.

Anyway....I have a question about the shot you made in your latte art video. Mine are coming out like that as best as I can tell without a bottomless portafilter....the flow is very slow and I'm only getting a little bit of crema and not much liquid. In the video you said the boiler pressure was too low but in your post you're blaming the grind....which one do you think was the main source of the problem? And if it was the grind would you go finer or coarser to correct it?

Re the OP,

I'm in a similar situation. I live in a smaller city in NE Arkansas and am 4+ hours from the nearest reputable service center and am over 90 min from the nearest talented Barista to hit up for 'curbside' advice. I purchased a new LP Europiccola epc8 online and have been working with it for 2 years now. I can now attain pretty consistent results, and have replaced all gaskets 5 months ago.

Things that I found helpful were the following

1) don't attempt to pull any singles during your learning process. Singles are very difficult to do well (imo) and thus I found it best to stick with the double basket for all learning; at least initially.

2) The best results I had as far as technique advancement were in the first 3-4 days after receiving a new shipment of quality beans. I found that ordering from the likes of Counter Culture (toscano) or BlueBottle (hayes valley or 14th floor) resulted in beans that I knew would be quality; and that each's website also held small hints on settings to maximize my pull's chance of success. I was also lucky enough to chat with one of the baristas at Blue Bottle in the Ferry bldg in San Fran during a vacation. The guy was at the lever stand and he was excellent and very forthcoming with info and tips for about 20 min one day.

3) Initially I think that I was dealing with too many variables at once. I helped reduce this by using WDT every time, and tamping consistently w NSEW. I also purhcased an Espro automatic tamper and used it for the first 2 months until I really had muscle memory of what that level of tamping felt like. Convex tampers seemed more forgiving upfront and I chose this version. Since then, I've moved to an Orphan espresso flat tamper which has worked well.

4) The only shots where I could really make progress on were the 2nd shot and (occassionally) the 3rd. The first, as you know, was always a bit 'off' due to the machine not being fully warm (even though I would pull water through to heat the grouphead). Point being, many times I'd agonize over poor shots in my 3rd and 4th attempts when doing a 'learning session'. However, since the machine was heating up at those times, it was always difficult to tell what was responsible for the error (for me, anyway).
So I'd take notes (fineness of grind on the doserless rocky, dose of coffee, day of bean freshness, lever pull technique/feel, ambient temp/humidity, taste, crema quality/quantity/ puck notes) only on the 2nd and 3rd shots, save my photos, and move on with the day. The next day I'd adjust based upon yesterday's notes, and upon dreams I'd had that night or am regarding techniques. (it"s a 'sickness' I'm sure many fellow posters can attest to)

You face added variables of machine refurbish quality. I'm sure mastering it will be all the more satisfying. Cheers.

Cool video, Ray. Steaming the milk is something I have been getting better at.

cyclocrossleverman wrote:Re the OP,

I'm in a similar situation. I live in a smaller city in NE Arkansas and am 4+ hours from the nearest reputable service center and am over 90 min from the nearest talented Barista to hit up for 'curbside' advice. I purchased a new LP Europiccola epc8 online and have been working with it for 2 years now. I can now attain pretty consistent results, and have replaced all gaskets 5 months ago.

Things that I found helpful were the following

1) don't attempt to pull any singles during your learning process. Singles are very difficult to do well (imo) and thus I found it best to stick with the double basket for all learning; at least initially.

2) The best results I had as far as technique advancement were in the first 3-4 days after receiving a new shipment of quality beans. I found that ordering from the likes of Counter Culture (toscano) or BlueBottle (hayes valley or 14th floor) resulted in beans that I knew would be quality; and that each's website also held small hints on settings to maximize my pull's chance of success. I was also lucky enough to chat with one of the baristas at Blue Bottle in the Ferry bldg in San Fran during a vacation. The guy was at the lever stand and he was excellent and very forthcoming with info and tips for about 20 min one day.

3) Initially I think that I was dealing with too many variables at once. I helped reduce this by using WDT every time, and tamping consistently w NSEW. I also purhcased an Espro automatic tamper and used it for the first 2 months until I really had muscle memory of what that level of tamping felt like. Convex tampers seemed more forgiving upfront and I chose this version. Since then, I've moved to an Orphan espresso flat tamper which has worked well.

4) The only shots where I could really make progress on were the 2nd shot and (occassionally) the 3rd. The first, as you know, was always a bit 'off' due to the machine not being fully warm (even though I would pull water through to heat the grouphead). Point being, many times I'd agonize over poor shots in my 3rd and 4th attempts when doing a 'learning session'. However, since the machine was heating up at those times, it was always difficult to tell what was responsible for the error (for me, anyway).
So I'd take notes (fineness of grind on the doserless rocky, dose of coffee, day of bean freshness, lever pull technique/feel, ambient temp/humidity, taste, crema quality/quantity/ puck notes) only on the 2nd and 3rd shots, save my photos, and move on with the day. The next day I'd adjust based upon yesterday's notes, and upon dreams I'd had that night or am regarding techniques. (it"s a 'sickness' I'm sure many fellow posters can attest to)

You face added variables of machine refurbish quality. I'm sure mastering it will be all the more satisfying. Cheers.

Thank you for the tips. Addressing #1, I have only a double basket & will only be pulling doubles. For #2, my coffee is always fresh. I roast it at home & make it sure it is at least 3 days post-roast. For #3, I just learned about the WDT and will start using it. I am also using a flat Orphan Espresso tamper. For tip #4, I need to start pulling more shots in a row. Most of the time, I just pull one. Certainly, I will improve with more practice.

entropyembrace wrote:Hi Ray,

I have a "new" 1970's espresso machine as my first machine...I only got it cleaned up well enough to use on Tuesday, so this is really day 3 with it. Day 1 was a sequence of sink shots, Day 2 I got drinkable but not good shots and I tried steaming the first time to make lattes...which actually turned out ok even I used a mug to froth in since I dont have any proper pitchers yet.

Anyway....I have a question about the shot you made in your latte art video. Mine are coming out like that as best as I can tell without a bottomless portafilter....the flow is very slow and I'm only getting a little bit of crema and not much liquid. In the video you said the boiler pressure was too low but in your post you're blaming the grind....which one do you think was the main source of the problem? And if it was the grind would you go finer or coarser to correct it?

It was both sort of - the boiler pressure was low, so I couldn't get enough water into the group head with the first lever pull up. So that's one part of the problem. The second part was that I was one click too fine, so I was choking the machine out (this, of course, tend to be compounded by lack of water there to push through the coffee grinds).

The best way to dial in the La Pavoni is to start coarse, then make the grind gradually finer in order to slow things down. Back pressure on the lever should be relatively mild. When everything is "just so", you shouldn't need to apply any sort of crazy force on the lever; just a slow steady pull, without putting any real weight into it. From there, you can adjust the tamp, so that you are not inducing channeling. It also helps to pull the lever up slowly and also pre-infuse for maybe 5 or 10 seconds.

Ray

Thanks Ray I tried pulling a few shots with the boiler at higher pressure and a coaser grind. I'm still barely getting any crema for some reason but the taste has improved a lot and I'm getting about the volume I expect for a single shot with one pull of the lever.

Results were a couple of very tasty shots and americanos...they were so good I'm not sure I should worry about the crema too much.

I'm using Cherry Hill's Red Label Espresso blend...just over a week past roast.

A little update...I went 2 clicks finer on my minimill than what I have been using trying to get crema...this was the setting I used to begin with and while I'm not sure what I was doing wrong then I got very little fluid and a -very- sour shot...

but now on the same grind setting I got just over 1oz for a single...and crema! and the taste was good too....similar to what I had before but less fruity and more dark chocolate.

I think it's that I've figured out a good dose (going by volume in the single basket...I ordered a double and a scale but theyre not here yet) and my tamp is more even than my first attempts...