Kaffee Bitte wrote:That is a beautiful shot. Just wondering about something I have seen a few times with Ponte Vecchio shots. Why is the shot mostly pouring out only one of the two holes? Is the machine not leveled properly or is this just a peculiarity of the portafilters?

I think there was a huge meteor passing near Earth's orbit, which warped the gravitational field and dragged the cone off-center. Certainly not to be explained by imperfections in barista technique.

Regards
Timo

P.S. The Rocket Dark Star was roasted on the 19th of the month and was 9 days old for this shot. Aromatic, mellow, sweet.

Timo wrote a while back that there was a chip off the chrome on his Lusso:

perhaps the enameled panels would be a better choice, if they are available.

My Export is painted, and it also had a small chip when delivered. The enamel can also chip where it is constantly being brushed against, such as under the filler-cap cover on the Export. I just put a drop of olive oil on the metal occasionally to prevent rusting, but it will be simple to prime and touch it up.

Also, someone asked a while back about the 45 mm baskets - I consistently dose 15g into my double basket with sufficient headroom, and pull either two-pull (1oz) or three-pull (1.5 oz) ristrettos. The "official" dose for a 2 oz doppio is, I believe, 14g, so the former are "official' ristrettos. One can adjust all factors and get a 14g, 2-oz doppio with the Ponte Vecchio, but it takes practice and it may not be optimal.

I've been focusing on 15g, two-pull, 1-oz ristrettos lately - these are quite intense - that's a lot of coffee for 1 oz of water.

I posted a 15-g 1-oz, 90% crema video yesterday:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...o-t3687.html#39425

Looking forward to the dinner party review!

PC

Oh, and re: the single stream from the PF, this is due to the way they are machined - if timo can post a photo of the inside you'll see that the coffee could easily flow all one way or the other if there is the slightest lean on the machine - I don't think this reflects uneven extraction. In fact, since about the second day I used my Ponte Vecchio I have never seen any evidence of side-channeling, especially with the double basket - the tall, narrow design of the 45-mm basket makes dosing fairly foolproof.

PC

I notice a few differences between the shots Peacecup is posting and the one Timmo has posted. The Peacecup shot has more crema that lasts longer, and the shots are being extracted in 6-8 seconds pulls (12-16 second total extractions), whereas the Timmo shot is extracted in 12-15 second pulls (24-30 second total extractions, assuming dwell times are equivalent between the two styles). I see that Peacecup is using 15gms in the double. Timmo, how much coffee are you using in the double?

I have tried to replicate both styles of shot on my Export. My customary pull looks more like Timmo's shots, which seem to pour as crema which dissapates quickly, leaving only a thin layer. I use 11gm in the double basket and to get a shot more like PC's, I back off the grind by a .5 turn on my Macap (which corresponds to about .3oz difference in shot before blonding on my E61). The coarser grind leads to a quicker shot, but this shot has more persistent crema and greater mouthfeel. It is also not as sweet or smooth as the finer, longer shot.

I believe that this makes sense in light of Jim's recent work on extraction ratios. The same volume of espresso pulled from a coarser grind in a shorter period of time should extract less than one pulled from a finer grind over a longer period. Also consistent with what one would expect from an E61, a similar volume pulled from a larger amount of coffee will have greater mouthfeel, and emphasize the chocolates and bitter flavours, whereas the lower dose will have less body and greater sweetness.

So, in my experience, I would say that Peacecup's shot is a lower extraction shot than Timmo's. On my blend, the PC style shot certainly has more of the cocoa notes and mouthfeel, whereas the Timmo style shot is a sweeter, milder experience. As you suggest, Peacecup, I would agree that you are pulling ristrettos compared to Timmo's normales. Does this make sense, or agree with both your assessments?

I really enjoy both styles, and it probably would not have occurred to me to try to get a PC style shot had you not posted it.

Mark

Dogshot wrote:Timmo, how much coffee are you using in the double?

11 ± ½g

The shot in the video was 11g.

I'm happy when the crema clings to the inside wall of the cup.

Regards
Timo

I have come to understand that 14g- 2.0 oz is a normale. You need to take four pulls to get 2 oz on the PV. Mine are 2-or 3-pull ristrettos as I understand it. Timo's dose falls somewhere between the traditional 7-g single and 14-g double. I tried down-dosing after reading Jim's paper, but I don't really like the way the puck performs (seems to be less firm at removal, suggesting channeling), and I'm not sure his theories of extraction really apply to the 45-mm basket and the 2- or 3-pull technique. I'll need to experiment a bit more with it. Its very interesting how one can produce such different types of shots with one simple little espresso maker.

PC

BTW, the 14-15 g pucks invariably pop out of the PF as a dry, solid puck.

peacecup wrote:Oh, and re: the single stream from the PF, this is due to the way they are machined - if timo can post a photo of the inside you'll see that the coffee could easily flow all one way or the other if there is the slightest lean on the machine - I don't think this reflects uneven extraction. In fact, since about the second day I used my Ponte Vecchio I have never seen any evidence of side-channeling, especially with the double basket - the tall, narrow design of the 45-mm basket makes dosing fairly foolproof.

PC

I figured it was one of these interesting quirks that lever machines are so lovely about. Must be nice having the depth to not have to worry about dosing. I know that it can be a huge pain in 58mm pf's. The portafilters I use at work can be pretty picky. It sometimes seems like all of my shot preparation time goes into just the pretamp prep.
Lynn

peacecup wrote:I have come to understand that 14g- 2.0 oz is a normale. You need to take four pulls to get 2 oz on the PV. Mine are 2-or 3-pull ristrettos as I understand it. Timo's dose falls somewhere between the traditional 7-g single and 14-g double. I tried down-dosing after reading Jim's paper, but I don't really like the way the puck performs (seems to be less firm at removal, suggesting channeling), and I'm not sure his theories of extraction really apply to the 45-mm basket and the 2- or 3-pull technique. I'll need to experiment a bit more with it. Its very interesting how one can produce such different types of shots with one simple little espresso maker.

PC

Illy's single is as follows:

Volume: 25-30ml
Ground coffee portion: 6.5 ± 1.5g
Water temperature: 90 ± 5° C
Inlet water pressure: 9 ± 2 bar
Percolation time: 30 ± 5 seconds

My two-pull double on the Lusso was slightly updosed, by Illy's traditional standards*.

Regards
Timo

P.S. Do not fear a goopy 'puck'.

*A 30ml espresso from an 11g dose on the Lusso, even with the spring-lever's somewhat lower brew pressure which is also tapering off during the pull, is ristretto in its flavor-intensity. For a ~30ml normale, one could lower the dose by a couple of grams and use a slightly finer grind.

Hi Timo,

Great job reviewing the PV Lusso. Two questions:

1. Is it possible to replace the spring with one that will allow the owner to pull a shot at ~ 9 bars (i.e., thicker spring and/or more coils)?

2. Will it be possible to replace the steam wand tip for an aftermarket tip (e.g., three-hole, two-hole, etc.)?

Thanks!

Javier