Then how does the LaPavoni rank in its ability to make a great espresso.


Thanks,
Ken

I own a Cremina and would not rate its espressos "10" (then again, the highest Buyer's Guide exceptional espresso score to-date is 9.25). All of the Buyer's Guides scores are cross-checked for consistency and Dave's Buyer's Guide to the Gaggia Achille rates the Cremina 8.0 and the La Pavoni 7.0. Of course, owners of these various pieces of equipment frequently don't agree...

I say the La Pavoni rates a 10
Then again, I don't have a Cremina to compare it to.

I do have a NS Oscar. I think it also rates a 10.
Then again, I don't have any other HX machine to compare it to.

I have followed a quest looking for the perfect lever... I think I have owned as many as anybody- No Micro Casa or Achille but I would say as a three time Cremina owner.. it ranks about high 8's, a La Pavoni ( I have owned a few also) maybe 8 and some change- The Gaggia Factory maybe 8.5--Peacecup would say a Export rates an 11.5 --- Karl would say the Elektra is the cats meow, he knows it sooo well...

There is not a huge difference among all of them IMHO..... your expectations change, your evaluation of the machine changes- so the report card is not static.

That is how I made it back to the machine that works best for me. Can't wait to hear what works for you

Soo have fun on the trip. I did

...then the Caravel:

arrarex-caravel-t5752.html

IS A 12

Compare the smooth subtle lines of the Caravel, the Milanese masterpiece, to the hard lines and industrial box shape of the Cremina. Even Mogo's lovely bubble handles and custom paint fail to soften that Swiss engineering.

Anyway, if you've gone this far, a lever is probably in your future, and you'll be able to see for yourself.

Cheers,

PC

There is a lot of mystique around the Cremina which I have never fully understood. I owned one for about 6 weeks (as a matter of fact, one that was in first class condition). If you are willing to accept the limitations of limited heat control (only shots 2, 3 and possibly sometimes 4) are possible before overheating. In addition maintaining consistent pressure is a challenge. Add to that the relatively small shot - it wasn't for me although the aesthetics were "jewel like."

I've been using a commercial lever that I bought in practically new condition for the last three years. It does not overheat, it pulls standard shots and I am satisfied with a very good cup day after day. Relative to the commercial lever the Cremina was perhaps a 6 within its very limit 2-3 shot range before things deteriorated. I would not go back and I didn't pay much more for the commercial lever than the recent prices Creminas have commanded.

Excerpt:

hperry wrote:I've been using a commercial lever that I bought in practically new condition for the last three years. It does not overheat, it pulls standard shots and I am satisfied with a very good cup day after day. Relative to the commercial lever the Cremina was perhaps a 6 within its very limit 2-3 shot range before things deteriorated. I would not go back and I didn't pay much more for the commercial lever than the recent prices Creminas have commanded.

Yes I would have to agree that a Cremina does not stand a chance against a commercial lever. However how much counter space does the average commercial lever take up and how much do they weigh? Are they 220V or standard 110V? Do they have to be plummed in? How large is the boiler and how much current does it take to get and keep it up to temperature? How many espressos does the average household make each morning?
I am in the group of owners that currently has limited counter space... I am not making more than three each morning and if I do entertain I have other 49mm group machines (Pavonis and Olympias) to use for entertaining. I am not going to plum for or rewire the elctrical to my counter because I don't plan on living here more than a couple of more years. So perhaps for the average owner we are comparing oranges to watermelons. If I wanted more capacity and stability I may go as far as the Ponte Vecchio or try to find an Olympia Club. That is until I get my dream home and Gourmet 15' X 20' kitchen... Then perhaps it would be a real kick to follow in the footsteps of Fullsack and others like yourself.

Actually its of the reasons I am looking at the La Pavoni or Olympia is due to counter space and to some degree hopefully end up with better espresso than my pump machine can do.Well their is also the romance of the lever machines too.

Have many of you gone from pumps to levers and wished you had stayed with pumps?

KenSea wrote:Have many of you gone from pumps to levers and wished you had stayed with pumps?

Look at the 'don't sell your Anita' thread...
I don't think it's a matter of lever instead of pump. I will keep my pump machine forever, I love it and perform great on it. And for my love of Americanos - I really can't imagine not having the hot water unlimitedly on demand.

As for the main topic: I noticed that La Pavoni has lower 'the morning after' score. Does it mean it is more difficult to learn to use it?

hperry wrote:There is a lot of mystique around the Cremina which I have never fully understood. I owned one for about 6 weeks (as a matter of fact, one that was in first class condition). If you are willing to accept the limitations of limited heat control (only shots 2, 3 and possibly sometimes 4) are possible before overheating. In addition maintaining consistent pressure is a challenge. Add to that the relatively small shot - it wasn't for me although the aesthetics were "jewel like."

TUS172 wrote:Yes I would have to agree that a Cremina does not stand a chance against a commercial lever.(...)I am not making more than three each morning and if I do entertain I have other 49mm group machines (Pavonis and Olympias) to use for entertaining.

I'm a bit in a different boat then both of you, for I'd rather buy a new machine and La Pavoni 16 cup is in comparable price to Elektra, and it is also comparable to old restaured Creminas. And the second point is that I plan to use the lever on trips/holidays/similar so portability is important to me, and Elektra and Cremina weight around 11kg while Pavoni is 6kg. So I want to be sure I don't crucify superior taste or ease of use for lighter weight (but in the end it doesn't look like that... unless I'd decide to pay 1/2 more and forgo lever for Semiautomatica = ease of use + superior taste and 11kg )