Hello HB!

I've just registered on this site after reading the forums for over a year now. I've finally gotten my hands on a Europiccola after long and careful decision making.

I've just got it 4 days ago and this morning I finally was able to pull a shot that I was really pleased with. The extraction was a bit on the long side (close to 40 sec) so I still have to work on my grind/tamp ratio but the proof was in the cup.

Anyhow, I'm planning on taking a look under the hood this weekend and would like ask if you guys have some advice on my model. I'm posting some photos here:







The machine is seemingly in great condition and seems to be working well. I was expecting it to be not too old given the condition but I know it has a 49mm basket (cause a bought a 51mm tamper which didn't fit) so it's for sure older than I thought. Just goes to show how great these machines can age if cared for correctly.

I think my machine is somewhere from 1990 to 1997 by looking at this site, but I'm not sure yet: http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_ep1_eng.htm

I'm going to descale it this weekend, and maybe open the bottom up to check for some dates (no sticker or anything on the outside). If my assumption above is right, is there anything I should particularly look for in this machine, or any specific parts that I should pay special attention to for maintenance?

I'd be happy to post additional photos if it helps tracking down the model.

Any input is warmly welcomed, thank you!

/dan

You should look inside, there should be a build date. La Pavoni seems to make machines from parts that often come from different times.

This machine:

1. Has a pressurestat. I believe they first appeared on Europiccolas around 1990. However, they were still making them with two heating elements and two switches at least until the late 1990s.

2. It does not have a detachable steam wand. That seems to put it before about 1995 or so.

3. It has an all plastic boiler cap. That puts it after the mid 1980s.

4. It has a clear plastic sight gauge cover that is held in place by screws. That also puts it probably in the early 1990s. (Earlier ones were brass, later ones held in place by badly designed plastic tabs.)

There were two quite different styles of portafilters on the 1974-2000 groups, early ones have M10 threads, later M12. I am not sure when they changed. (No matter which you have, there can be serious problems with disssimilar metal corrosion and severe rusting because they use ordinary steel for a threaded rod that connects the handle to the portafilter itself. You should consider changing this soon if the former owner did not do this.)

Because of La Pavoni's way of making machines with parts from different eras, I would agree with your accessment of its age. However, I would have said 1990-1995, because I think detachable steam wands were on almost all machines after 1995?

I would suggest servicing the group right away. This involves dissassembling it and cleaning it very thoroughly and checking for problems. If the machine were used with really hard water there could be carbonate deposits inside. Relubricate the piston seals with silicone grease, use Dow 111 or equivalent. Some is marked food grade. You will then learn if the piston be made of plastic or brass. There were serious problems with plastic, so they were discontinued after a few years. Yours almost certainly is before they used plastic. When you take off the bottom cover check for rust. Rust is serious. You can also then detect steam leaks. If there be leaks you can usually hear a sound when the machine is at full pressure. They need to be eliminated right away, especially those in the base.

These machines last for many decades if they be cared for properly.

Thank you so much for the information. I really appreciate it!

I'll post the results of this weekends upcoming servicing, now with added group servicing

Just managed to finish my servicing which turned out to be less than expected. I opened the group and had a look. Everything looked clean and the seals looked fresh. I put it all back together without changing anything.



I opened the bottom and here there were more to find. A lot of small rust spots everywhere. I'm not really sure how to deal with this the best way and I'm also not exactly sure where it's coming from as it seemed somewhat evenly spread around the base. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.



Finically I looked around for some dates but could only found something on the boiler element. It looks like it says 93 which would be in line with the previous assessments.



Am currently descaling and after that I will power her back up and see if everything still works ok.

Thank you for any input, especially on how to deal with the rust.

/dan

Except for the rust spots it appears to be in very good shape.

Someone once told me that some La Pavoni plastic sub bases have holes in them to allow air to circulate so that the air inside does not remain humid all the time.

Rusting is auto catalytic. If it were my machine I would try to see if I could carefully sand away the rust spots, clean where they were, and then put anti rust over the areas where they were. How deep are the rust spots? One could totally disassemble everything and chemically clean the underside of the base, but that seems to be "over kill" in this case because it really does not too bad at this stage.

In the future you could inspect it from time to time to be sure that more rust spots are not forming.

Thanks again for the suggestions! How would you go about with the sanding? With hand and paper or with a tool? I have some sanding bits for my drill that I can try... I'll probably give that a go next weekend if I have time. Any suggestion on what is good anti rust brands? (I'm living in Germany but don't speak German so going to the hw store to ask is usually a very confusing experience).

On another note, and this very much coming from a newbie getting into the world of lever machines: Since I put the machine back together I noticed that when pulling a shot, I raise the lever fully during pre-infuse and then push down. For the very first part there is very little resistance. My assumption is that this is because the water in the group at that stage has 2 ways to go, either back into the boiler or through the coffee. Then, when the piston covers the inlet hole from boiler the water can only go through filter and I feel significantly more pressure. First, I'm wondering if this assumption is correct and normal? I would assume this is ok, but since I have little reference I thought I ask you pros If this is in fact normal, I'm also wondering why I didn't feel this before I had taken the group apart/put together?

There can be little resistance at the start of the pull from air being trapped inside the cylinder bore. Normally as the first water enters the cylinder bore some of it vaporises, and the resulting water vapour increases the pressure inside the bore so that the air in the bore is pushed out through the coffee plug. When the coffee plug becomes covered with liquid water, however, the air that is still above the coffee plug is trapped there, and it is being compressed making the pull "spongy". This happens more often with finely ground coffee, and especially when the machine is not fully warmed up. At an ambient temperature of 20C I suggest 3.5 minutes must elapse between the time you let out the air through the steam wand. (Are you doing this properly? When the light goes up, allow steam to escape through the steam wand a few seconds, and raise the handle all the way to the top just momentarily, enough to allow a few millilitres of water to escape from the group. This will get the air out of both the boiler and the space above the cylinder. Otherwise the group will be too cold, and so will the water in the boiler.) Leave the portafilter on the machine without the filter basket from the time you turn on the machine, so it gets warmed up during the warm up phase, and put the filter basket in it just before making the shot. A cold portafilter will lower the temperature and make it more difficult to get out the air. On subsequent shots the idea becomes trying to keep it from becoming too hot. Then it is best to leave the portafilter off the machine except when making the shot, in my opinion.

People commonly use Rust Oleum brand paint. It comes both in tins and in spray. If you have something like a Dremel or similar device, you might consider using the little wire brush on the spots. It is not really aggressive and would lessen the chance of removing metal along with the rust. You could then just spot on the anti rust paint.

I'm not sure if what I feel is a spongy feel but since I'm new to this I'll try to explain further. Basically my procedure is this:

1. Fill up water and turn on machine. Portafilter locked in, basket out.
2. Wait until up to temp, light go off (grinding in the mean time, hand grinding takes time).
3. While waiting for temp, groom puck, tamp and have basket ready (maybe this is my mistake to do this too early)
4. When up to temp bleed from steam wand into cup until solid steam comes out (heats cup slightly)
5. Raise lever until water just starts pouring out, let pour for about half a shot into cup (heats group, portafilter and cup)
6. Take portafilter out and drop basket in (I usually don't wait 3.5 minutes here. Probably max 2 mins between step 5 and 7)
7. Lift lever to full, wait for about 10 sec to pre infuse. I usually see a slight drip about 5-7 secs into this.
8. Start to press the lever down. For about the first 30-40% of the total lever movement the lever moves almost with no resistance. Then it's like a threshold is reached and for the remainder of the pull I start to feel strong resistance as the coffee starts to pour out.
9. Finish the shot in about 20-25 secs after start pressing down.

I guess my question is why the first part of the shot feel so easy on the pressure. It might very well be because of trapped air as you suggest, but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I will try to wait longer between step 5 and 7 above and finalize the basket in this time. And is it correct to assume that what I experience is not supposed to happen? I usually get plenty of creama and a quite acidic taste that I like so I don't really mind the result but am trying to figure out if everything is working correctly.

Again, many thanks,

/Dan

4. When up to temp bleed from steam wand into cup until solid steam comes out (heats cup slightly)
5. Raise lever until water just starts pouring out, let pour for about half a shot into cup (heats group, portafilter and cup)

I don't think your group is hot enough. You have to purge air from above the piston to allow hot steam to replace it. This is done by combining steps 4 and 5 above: in other words, raise the lever while the steam wand is still bleeding "false pressure" from the boiler. You only need to let a little water come out, and as you guide the lever back down, you will hear the air that had been trapped above the piston being swept out through the steam wand. After that the group will heat up very fast. You might want to purge a little more water through the group when the machine is back up to pressure. Then insert your portafilter and raise the lever.

The result should be that the cylinder inside the boiler will be hot enough to allow the incoming water vapour to sweep out the air that is between the puck and the top of the piston before it is trapped by the puck becoming saturated. And your pull will be firm almost from the moment you begin it.

Awesome, thanks for the detailed help. Goes to show I have plenty to learn still.

But good to know that there seems nothing wrong with the machine, only the machinist

It's rare that I can't wait for Monday morning to come sooner, but can't wait to try it out tomorrow