With my europiccola, using a pretty stable measuring, dosing & tamping routine, I find 2 things about grind that I don't really understand.

One is that I benefit from bumping up my rocky 1 setting coarser for the second shot, if I'm pulling 2 shots in a row.

Another is that right setting varies pretty widely -- maybe 6 ticks in either direction -- from one roast to another. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the general character or oilyness (sp?) of the beans, tho as beans age they seem to need a finer grind.

It's not especially a problem, but I'd love to understand what's going on.

Hi Bobby, IMO you are covering some, but not all of the variables AND they all apply. It is the beans, their age, their roast, the humidity, the temp, the temp and pressure in the LaPa, etc etc etc.... I find fine tuning between shots to be necessary to getting a really good cup. It's one area my Zass excels at. Knowing which way to shift is something you learn over time. For me, aside from finer as coffee ages, I base everything else on taste and appearance... I don't try to analyze all the components, just their final impact. Pity the person who only has one or two settings in the "espresso" range.....

Ken

I, too, use a German hand grinder, and I love the truly stepless adjustment. In fact, one of the most rewarding parts of the lever espresso experience is the minute adjustment that nearly always make the second shot better than the first. You've obviously got a good grasp on the main variables, although the espresso niche is truly an N-dimensional hypervolume. Here are some of my thoughts:

1. You'll be able to isolate the necessary grind adjustment better if your dose and tamp are as consistent as possible.
2. I find its nice to concentrate on one or two bean varieties at a time, unless I have a lot of time to experiment.
3. Keeping the lever pull technique constant helps, but of course a sink shot (or in my office, a window shot) can often be saved by adaptive management mid-pull (increasing/decreasing pressure).

Since I'm logged in I'll also add how pleasant it is to hold my grinder between my knees, and, with the hopper open, imbibe in the aroma of fresh beans being almost noiselessly ground to the exact fineness my Ponte Vecchio is silently awaiting.

Peace,

PC

First off, I can't believe I got another thread bumped to a different forum. Half my question is specifically about the europiccola -- why it requires a coarser grind after the first shot. Mods: moving a thread says the person who posted is too dumb to know what forum to post in. I suggest you do it with restraint; i.e., when something is actually off-topic. A coffee forum may lend itself to greater mod activity than, say, a valium forum . . .

That said, thanks for input. I've looked around, and can't find any information on why the la pavoni drifts after the first shot. I won't feel like I really understand the machine til I understand that.

Thanks as ever.

bobby yarrow wrote:Mods: moving a thread says the person who posted is too dumb to know what forum to post in. I suggest you do it with restraint; i.e., when something is actually off-topic.

I moved it to Barista Tips & Techniques and did so because it seemed a broader topic than the specifics of your original question suggested. While sometimes moving threads around means it was misplaced, in this case it was because I thought the question was a particularly good one, not a "dumb" one, and might be overlooked in the Levers forum. Occasionally such discussions evolve to merit inclusion in the "FAQs and Favorites" list too.

But in the interest of lever harmony, I've moved it back and added "europiccola" to the title to remind me not to make that mistake again.

I am also aways adjusting my zassenhaus knee grinder. Sometimes in the middle of a grind for a shot. It took a bit of getting used to but my shots are coming out pretty consistently so I have gotten the hang of it. I think it is hard to find exact settings that work all the time, especially if one is changing coffees roasting times........

I also just ordered a Grannamacinna Isomac grinder and I will use it in my studio, A whole new learning curve to enjoy.

And Dan, you are truly a Gentleman for moving the topic back in to the lever forum. Got to go, time to take another valium.

All the best,

Thanks . . . sorry I took umbrage on the move . . . espresso-to-valium ratio must be off. (Also, in the forums I participate in professionally, only jerks get their threads moved or closed.)

Anyhow. I do find this second-pull-needs-coarser-grind question interesting. Not true for any of the pump machines I've used (or maybe I failed to make the adjustment). I'm still more than a little perplexed by the europiccola's lever resistance -- why it's high sometimes, low sometimes, somes no resistance for the first half of the pull and then I practically need to stand on it. I feel like this 'second shot' question might crack the puzzle for me.

Thanks.

I have the same thing on my europiccolo. If I do two shots in a row, and the first is just right, the second will choke the machine unless adjust the grind. Grinding 2 clicks coarser on the rocky compensates. I assume that some metal part of the pavoni (no idea which) has expanded with the heat and restricted the flow of water/steam.

How hard are you tamping? Are you grinding very fine, with a medium tamp, or coarser with a very heavy tamp? In my experience, softer tamps are harder to reproduce consistently - sometimes you'll over do it and the lever will get stuck, sometimes you'll get it right. What seems to work for me is grinding a bit coarser and then doing quite a heavy tamp (although still not the 30lbs of pressure that you read about often). A heavy tamp, somehow, is easier to reproduce consistently. That said, I usually only make one shot, so I don't really know what would happen if I pulled two in a row. I'll give it a try this afternoon.

Also, how about getting the bathroom scales out and using them to tamp on, so you can see what pressure you're using? That way, you can make sure you tamp very consistently. If you still end up getting very different results from shot to shot, then at least you'll know it's not the tamping.

Ritske

Ritske - thanks, but the problem is not that shots are unpredictable, but that there is a predictable difference between the first shot and the second. If the first shot is just right, the second will choke the machine unless the grind is, (in my case) two clicks coarser. This is repeatable - every time. Bobby Yarrow at the top of the thread described what sounds like exactly the same phenomenon. I don't think this can be a tamping issue.

Mine is a very old europiccolo - mid 1970s I think - which might be part of the explanation...