Help to identify La Pavoni Europiccola pre-millenium - Page 2

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rpavlis
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#11: Post by rpavlis »

The cap on this is the good one that has brass threads instead of all plastic like later ones, the top of this cap is a plastic to prevent burning fingers!!!

Another hint, I would polish the bore of the group very carefully. There are several types of metal polish that are appropriate. Keeping the bore well polished and ultra smooth will keep the seals in good condition longer. Note that the walls of the group and the seals of the piston are lubricated by something like the "silicone" Dow 111. Be sure to lubricate the external parts of the lever with an high quality grease, not the silicone.

You might find a stainless steel threaded rod or brass threaded rod to attach the portafilter to its handle. Earlier models have M10 threads, later M12. Many people have serious problem with dissimilar metal corrosion when this is not done.

When this machine is all cleaned and polished, and everything put together it will be a fantastic machine! You are in luck to have the "real" copper and brass model. (You can usually tell this, because in the "fake" models the soldered on parts to the boiler are copper colour from the copper plating.) Note that these parts are not copper plated on yours, which is the ideal thing!

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cuppajoe
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#12: Post by cuppajoe »

Might be worthwhile sending an inquiry to Francesco about that can around the element to see if it's original. Good idea, as it would keep a water jacket around the element with the boiler drained completely and prevent it from frying, giving you time to shut it down before the water in the can evaporates.

If using a Pavoni or similar design I would be tempted to replicate the idea.
David - LMWDP 448

My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits

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rpavlis
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#13: Post by rpavlis »

I have a 1978 La Pavoni with the two holes for water entry at the top of the group cylinder. (There is a third hole to admit steam to the space above the piston for heating.) Water just rushes through the two holes and this increases the incidence of "spongy" pulls, and also seems to disturb the puck more. Furthermore, when bleeding the air from group water comes out the group in a cascade! It is almost like a visit to Iguazu falls! La Pavoni had a good reason for eliminating the second hole in later production!

The low end of the dip tube inside diameter can be tapped with an M7x1.0 tap. The metal used for the dip tube seems to be a bit strange and hard to tap. You can turn the tap into it perhaps half a turn, remove the tap, clean off the swarf, and then repeat the process until a reasonable length is threaded.

M7x1.0 (Or any M7 thread pitch) is an uncommon screw size. If one can find a brass screw like this, one can drill a hole in it and cut it off the right length to screw into the now threaded dip tube, after drilling as described below.

Otherwise, one can take a lathe and turn a piece of brass that is 9 or 10mm in diameter down to a bit less than 7mm for perhaps 5 or 6 millimetres and then use an M7x1.0 die to thread it. One can drill a hole between about 1.8 to 2.0 in this brass piece and screw it into the end of the now threaded dip tube. The ideal hole size is surprisingly small.

(You could probably also thread the outside of the dip tube, I suspect, and make a piece to screw onto, rather than into the dip tube.)

potkan (original poster)
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#14: Post by potkan (original poster) »

Actually it seems like threaded rods attached to the portafilter and lever handle are good aswell, there is slight corrosion in the area exposed to the moisty air so I will just clean it for now but thanks for the tip, I will replace it when required.


Also I was just thinking which silicone to use for the piston and grease for the lever, I will ask what they offer in the shop I am going to buy spare parts.

I will see what I do with the 2nd hole once I make it work. Maybe you can show me some pic to understand exactly how you solved it?

Anyway, thanks for all the tips guys, I am pretty new here and never did an espresso before. I will let you know how I progress with rebuilding the machine. Cheers

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homeburrero
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#15: Post by homeburrero »

cuppajoe wrote:Might be worthwhile sending an inquiry to Francesco about that can around the element to see if it's original. Good idea, as it would keep a water jacket around the element with the boiler drained completely and prevent it from frying, giving you time to shut it down before the water in the can evaporates.
You can see one of these pictured on Francesco's site here: http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/La_Pa ... za_eng.htm . See the element pic for the 1984 Pro.

Note that the copper can surrounding the element has a tab that is in contact with the well in the element base where the thermofuse goes. Looks to me an attempt to improve the effectiveness of the protective thermofuse, similar to the 1980 element pictured where a copper tab extending up through the center of the element is attached to the thermofuse well.
Pat
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potkan (original poster)
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#16: Post by potkan (original poster) »

nice, so we know this is a real and not a fake. and around 84'

potkan (original poster)
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#17: Post by potkan (original poster) »

Hey guys, I am making some progress, already cleaned group head and piston.
I found that best for cleaning work a paste made from flour, white vinegar and little bit of salt.
Certainly I can keep the lacquered parts out the acid reach.
I will post some news soon.

Anyway, I was checking around to order new parts to don't waste time and I came up with question about safety release valve.

I noticed that my model has no anti-vacuum safety valve. As this is old model, there is pressurestat in the base connected to the heating element.
I red on the forums that it uses diffent spring and it's there just in case pstat doesn't do its job.

However I found some topics, where guys discussed an "auto bleed" effect when anti-vacuum is not used.
They don't explained if it might be worth to replace the old safety valve.
Since it seems it can be an issue, when boiler vacuum raise the lever and pull gunk up from spent puck into the brew chamber.
They just suggest to remove and clean portafilter right after the shot, but well sometimes you might forget.

I am not familiar yet with these lever machines. Is this "auto bleed" an issue on pre-millennium model?
Can you please explain me a little bit more about this issue? Did you noticed something similar? How did you solved the effect?
Should I replace the old safety valve with anti-vacuum version?

Thank you.

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homeburrero
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#18: Post by homeburrero »

potkan wrote:I red on the forums that it uses diffent spring and it's there just in case pstat doesn't do its job.
The Pro always had a stronger spring than the old dual-element europiccolas. The new Europiccolas (with the pStat) use the same stronger spring as the Pro models.

Your machine has a stainless steel ball, and those can corrode and leak a little. Lots of people simply buy this: http://www.espressocare.com/products/it ... fessionale to replace that steel ball.

Yours would not have the anti-vacuum valve - those came in after the millennium models came out. If you want to upgrade to have an anti-vacuum function like the new models, you need to replace the safety valve body and cap along with the new spring and anti-vacuum valve.

This page at Stefano's espressocare should show the different safety valve parts nicely.
Pat
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potkan (original poster)
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#19: Post by potkan (original poster) »

Steel ball in my model is not rusty, so there is no problem with this yet.

Still would you prefer to use anti-vacuum valve? I believe they changed it for some reason, maybe it was related just for safety regulations for electric boilers. Anyway, is it an issue to use machine without it?

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rpavlis
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#20: Post by rpavlis »

The anti vacuum valve requires replacing the whole valve assembly, because it has a differently shaped seat. It always seemed to me to be a worthless addition to second generation La Pavonis (1974-2000) whether Professional or Europiccola, because you have to bleed them thoroughly anyway to get the air out of the group. The positive it has is it can prevent getting stuff pulled back into the boiler when its pressure falls below atmospheric, but this is no real problem when one is careful with maintaining the machine.