Anyone do or see a good comparison of the pros and cons of modestly-priced (less than $600) lever machines? Opinions on what to look for? Where to buy? I'm looking to move to lever from an old Gaggia Coffee. Thanks.

The starting list of comparison candidates would be :

*La Pavoni Europiccola ( in her many variations)

*Cremina- catch as catch can on a for sale / fixer upper

La Cara-( La Pavoni really)

*Ponte Vecchio Export

Sama ( Now Ponte Vecchio)

Riviera-

*Elektra Microcasa AL-

La Peppina

*Gaggia Factory( La Pavoni really)

Microcimbali

Zerowatt- pretty rare Euro

Caravel-

(This list is omitting large format machines....)

*= the machines that are the more available and seem to get the most satisfied "personal" informal reviews...

The comparison will be skewed by some of your personal details and preferences, so tell us about those...... then the input will really fly!

Criteria: Best espresso. Rarely make milk drinks. Minimize variability in quality. Use just occasionally and generally for just myself (which is why it's hard to justify a higher price).

Jeff

P.S. With my Gaggia Coffee and home roasted coffee I make espresso better than what I can easily find now. Is it worth it to go with a lever machine?

JeffNYC wrote:Criteria: Best espresso. Rarely make milk drinks. Minimize variability in quality. Use just occasionally and generally for just myself (which is why it's hard to justify a higher price).
Jeff
P.S. With my Gaggia Coffee and home roasted coffee I make espresso better than what I can easily find now. Is it worth it to go with a lever machine?

FWW, Sometimes the Zen and Crema envy generated by levers are all it needs to make you want one. That said, They do make ( with devotion only second? to your partner' ) a glorious cup of brew! They do do the godshots but not immediately. Try one at a dealer that sells them. Then, if you like buy the demo for a discount!
My1¢
richard

Jeff,
Greg "mogogear" has provided you with a comprehensive list of lever machines, but before going machine by machine, I would make a decision between spring or manual action. They are very different animals with their own strengths and weaknesses.

I was thinking spring. What are the key strengths and weaknesses?

This thread has a good debate on the subject.


http://www.home-barista.com/forum...g-curve-t2747.html

Jeff,
I go back to the last part of my post before there everybody weighs in.... What are some of your preferences that you are aware of. i.e- espresso only drinker? coffee used- home roasted- fresh roasted mailed , number of drinks per day? space ? more than one person will be using it? Personal desire on the learning curve aspect( it is not a cruel curve - but one that does run some people off)

This will help us not blabber on and on and on... you get the picture

Espresso primarily
Infrequent use, one or two shots per day at most
I'm the only user
Home roasted (just started and learning)
Desire consistently good coffee, but I expect some learning (I'm getting very good espresso from my Gaggia Coffee now, it seems very forgiving)
Price sensitive, I just don't see justification for spending more than $500-ish

JeffNYC wrote:Espresso primarily
Infrequent use, one or two shots per day at most
I'm the only user
Home roasted (just started and learning)
Desire consistently good coffee, but I expect some learning (I'm getting very good espresso from my Gaggia Coffee now, it seems very forgiving)
Price sensitive, I just don't see justification for spending more than $500-ish

There are no new machines in your price range--unless you can find the odd close-out.

At the top of mogogear's list is the La Pavoni Europiccola; it meets all of your requirements and would be the easiest to find used on eBay; parts and service are still available. La Pavonis outnumber Ponte Vecchios and Elektras on eBay 500 to 1 --you could wait a very long time to find a used PV or a used Elektra and also win the auction. The other machines in mogogear's list are either hard to find, hard to find parts for, antiques, beyond your stated price even when sold pre-owned, or, as non-steamers do not meet your "espresso primarily" requirement.

Regards
Timo

P.S. What grinder are you using? You might consider a hand-grinder for about $75. High-quality grind.

timo888 wrote:There are no new machines in your price range--unless you can find the odd close-out.

This is a new Ponte Vecchio Export sold by Gensaco. Last week it was on sale for $500 on their web-site, so you could consider just making the seller a buy-it-now offer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-LEVER-ESPRESSO-cappuccino-MACHINE-NIB_W0QQitemZ140097074849QQcategoryZ38252QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But there is no Buy It Now option. There is a starting bid at $529 plus $40 shipping (without insurance). Moreover, the Seller does not indicate a shipping method. UPS Ground? Fedex Ground? Parcel Post? USPS Priority? I avoid sales like this on eBay, where things are so indefinite. But that's my personal risk-aversion, augmented by some less than ideal eBay experiences, my own and those reported here by others.

Regards
Timo

I have the Cunill Tranquilo, it works great with my Gaggia.

It is very possible you can find an Ebay la pavoni europiccola for around $300. Used yes but relatively easy to fix and quite easy to get parts for. For a grinder I agree that a hand grinder would be great. Nice and old school to go with the old school espresso. Or another option is the Nemox Lux. It will run you somwhere around 150-170. (not including shipping) While it is not a semi pro quality like a mazzer or macap, it will produce a grind fine enough to choke an espresso machine. I know because I used to use one for decaf espresso in a coffee shop I used to work at (With a doser). Very hard to come by these with a doser now though. Great inexpensive grinder if you can live without a doser.
Go this route and you can probably also get a nice tamper to go with all for around 600. (less with a hand grinder)
Then just buy the other small items you feel you need when you can spare the funds.

Kaffee Bitte wrote:........ For a grinder I agree that a hand grinder would be great. Nice and old school to go with the old school espresso. Or another option is the Nemox Lux. It will run you somwhere around 150-170. (not including shipping) While it is not a semi pro quality like a mazzer or macap, it will produce a grind fine enough to choke an espresso machine. I know because I used to use one for decaf espresso in a coffee shop I used to work at (With a doser). Very hard to come by these with a doser now though. Great inexpensive grinder if you can live without a doser.........

or he could struggle ahead with the Cunhill.............

True mogogear. I was just trying to help him stay in his budget. Because by the Gods I just took a leap outside of what I wanted to spend. (Don't get me wrong I could afford it, and I wanted it so bad I could taste it and SOON I will be able to) It's all up to JeffNYC once he's got some leads. Also many home espresso geeks prefer the doserless.
Another option in the hand grinder price range is a turkish coffee mill. between 30-40 on ebay. or around 100 new.

Hate to say it, but if lever machines are too finicky for my Cunhill, I'll probably just stay with what I have or look for another pump. I'm getting very good espresso now and improving with more and more experience in roasting (just started). I agree a good grinder is critical, so don't need the lecture there. Everyone has to pick their point on the cost/benefit curve...

Anyone out there think I can do better with a lever machine and a Cunhill Tranquilo than with my Gaggia Coffee?

JeffNYC wrote:Hate to say it, but if lever machines are too finicky for my Cunhill, I'll probably just stay with what I have or look for another pump. I'm getting very good espresso now and improving with more and more experience in roasting (just started). I agree a good grinder is critical, so don't need the lecture there. Everyone has to pick their point on the cost/benefit curve...

Anyone out there think I can do better with a lever machine and a Cunhill Tranquilo than with my Gaggia Coffee?

I have read reviews that say the Tranquilo is a good grinder. It has micro-adjustment with a worm gear, doesn't it? What can be inadequate are the stepped grinders with too few steps in the espresso range. Those grinders might not give you the nuanced control over the grind that you need to manage the extraction time and flow. BTW, I just pulled a very tasty 7g-dosed single on the Lusso using a tiny micro-adjustable KYM hand-grinder that I bought for ~$75. The grinder had never been used. The burrs were pristine.

What you need to decide is whether you would like the operational simplicity and repeatability, and the mellower, sweeter espresso of the domestic spring lever with its 45mm baskets, 6-7 bars of brew pressure tapering off to ~3 bars at the end of the shot, or the greater operational complexity and bolder espresso of the manual lever with its 49-51mm* baskets and brew pressure that can attain and exceed 9 bar under the barista's hand (piston seals permitting).

Regards
Timo

*I am excluding antiques like the Italianstyle with their large 68mm (?) baskets.

timo888 wrote:*I am excluding antiques like the Italianstyle with their large 68mm (?) baskets.

Timo,
Aren't you also excluding the popular Elektra spring lever?

bill wrote:Aren't you also excluding the popular Elektra spring lever?

Elektra was not excluded but bumped to the bottom as outside OP's stated budget. I advised the OP that "La Pavonis outnumber Ponte Vecchios and Elektras on eBay 500 to 1 --you could wait a very long time to find a used PV or a used Elektra and also win the auction."

original poster wrote:... modestly-priced (less than $600) lever machines ...

Regards
Timo