Getting near wits end, but hopefully it's HB to the rescue! I can't seem to get ideal-looking extractions from my double basket, no matter what, and I'm aiming to debunk the issue at hand. As an aside, I believe my group or machine to not be level - better looking shots always seem to gather & pour closer to the front of the PF rather than perfectly centered. Does that also need to be a concern? When using a dual-spouted PF, shots only flow from the front-most spout (bottomless flow is still front-heavy even in baskets prepped outside the PF).

Shots are between 28-36g by weight, single pull, doubles with mini-pumps to bleed out air / build up pressure if on the coarser side.

Elektra single basket dosed anywhere from 8.5g - 10.5g; slap shot to knock grinds down; stockfleth'd & leveling tamp = always even extraction flowing across the entire basket.

Elektra double basket dosed anywhere from 17g - 18.5g (19g at a coarser grind works quite poorly); minimal slap shot to knock grinds down; stockfleth'd if needed; leveling tamp and/or nutation = always flows from the perimeter with varying sizes bald spot on the inside.

When I grind coarser in attempt to updose, I often get a wet and messy preinfusion and shots are too fast / lack pressure. Grinding average and updosing damn near chokes the shot resulting in a long slow pull. My average shot only forms drops around the perimeter, rarely in the middle, and flows similarly. This is the case whether I'm grinding with a Lido 2, Pharos or HG1 (and was trying RDT with some HG1 shots, same grind setting as David uses on his Cremina & even tried coarser).

Slap shotting, shaking or knocking the PF in any way forms minor soft clumps that otherwise aren't there straight out of the grinder; but they seem to collapse easy under the tampers own weight. Shots taste fine, and 95% of my shots are used for cortados rather than drank straight, but that doesn't stop me from wishing to address and correct this issue.

Channeling close to the handle is typically because it is over dosed from my experience. Try going lower and see what happens.

I'm using 15g in the Elektra double and it seems to help with the overall extraction.

I just tried 15g and 16g shots ground a hair finer than my usual, straight out of the Pharos it barely needed any shaking or Stockfleth since it wasn't as tall a mound as 17-18g. Leveling tamp, no pressure, but both were fairly wet preinfusions; the 15g flowed far too easy and wound up a 41g shot (not salvageable even with milk) and 16g was the worst spritzer I've ever pulled, but yielded a 38g shot which tasted weak/watered down even as a cortado.

The usual 17-18g doses, while not picture perfect in action, seem to be tasty and in the typical normale volume range. I get good (if not LOADS) of crema, which seems to dissipate slower than shots I've pulled on previous machines. Am I just too expectant, or are others also pulling similar looking shots with any frequency?

My previous experience with the Pharos, and with HG-One both align in that you need some sort of mixing and distribution method. Straight out of either grinder never worked for me. Maybe you can find a blend or routine that does.

What works for me is dosing into a small pitcher or paper cup, shaking and swirling a bit, then take some care to pour the mixed grinds into the basket corners. First half layer of distribution matters the most, the top half will be taken care of mostly by tamping, so I don't find that to be critical. But if you have a low-density pocket in a bottom corner of the basket, it usually stays that way.

Clogged group? You sound very experienced so I would think not, however. I would suggest getting a naked portafilter so you can get a visual. It helped me a lot with my Cremina.

Christo wrote:Clogged group? You sound very experienced so I would think not, however. I would suggest getting a naked portafilter so you can get a visual. It helped me a lot with my Cremina.

Definitely not, shortly after acquiring the machine another local Cremina-owning HB member looked mine over and OK'd it's condition I use a Penney bottomless PF for all shots, the stock spouted PF hasn't seen actual use in months.

EspressoForge wrote:My previous experience with the Pharos, and with HG-One both align in that you need some sort of mixing and distribution method. Straight out of either grinder never worked for me. Maybe you can find a blend or routine that does.

What works for me is dosing into a small pitcher or paper cup, shaking and swirling a bit, then take some care to pour the mixed grinds into the basket corners. First half layer of distribution matters the most, the top half will be taken care of mostly by tamping, so I don't find that to be critical. But if you have a low-density pocket in a bottom corner of the basket, it usually stays that way.

Thank you for articulating this. I find that with the smaller diameter baskets, distribution is certainly tougher (or just less perfect) than it was in 58mm baskets. When using the HG1, I did WDT either in the tumbler before dropping into the basket, or in basket with the tumbler attached like an Ipanema funnel. I have the shorty OE funnel, which doesn't really allow me much good WDT in basket with a tall and fluffy pile - but I will definitely try stirring in a cup before it's in basket.

I usually have no problem dosing out of the Pharos. Another HBer visited and suggested I try pressing out the middle of the puck and not nutating the tamp. After I level I use the back of my palm to get a convex shape before tamping. If I'm still having any unevenness I use WDT.

Another HBer had suggested I try a convex tamper, so I'll try it your way before making a purchase. Thanks for the tip, Gary. Really curious about transferring grinds straight from Pharos to basket, but that's another topic entirely

Here, for what it is worth, is my Hg-one grind technique, regardless of machine:

1. Weigh coffee beans
2. Place beans in ramekin, add 3 or 4 drops of distilled water. Stir. (I do not want the salts in our horrible water in my grinder!)
3. Dump coffee into grinder.
4. Grind into blind tumbler. (Remove "funnel" to check no coffee is clinging, tap if necessary.)
5. Place filter basket on rubber pad. Place blind tumbler on top. Stir with centre in place. I tend to use a chop stick.
6. Remove blind tumbler centre piece. Stir again. Shake a bit to level.
7. Remove blind tumbler. Tap a bit to level.
8. Press.