I don't doubt that quality could be suffering, but your machine did have its group replaced with the older version before being sent to you. What specifically are the problems you're seeing?

Regards
Timo

I noted in my original Ponte Vecchio Export thread that I did not think the build tolerences were up to those of the Cremina (having never actually seen the later however). But I have found the quality at least equal, and possibly better than that of the La Pavoni. After two years I have done nothing to my Export but place a occasional drop of olive oil on the piston rod, rubber feet, and group head gasket. And I have the tendency to push the poor little Export beyond manufacturer's recommendations by putting extra pressure on the piston during slow pours.

Overall, I found several minor cosmetic flaws when I got the machine, but the build quality ample, if not impeccible.

I think other readers considering buying an Export would like to see a list of the issues you've seen with your newer machine,

PC

I disassembled my Ponte Vecchio Export with the following tools:

17 mm open ended wrench for the Steam Wand
9 mm ring wrench for the Group Head
10 mm socket wrench for the Boiler studs.

Note: This unit has a MA-TER XP110 2 bar pressure stat

The list of problems with my PVE:

Problem: Joe at The Good Coffee Company(TGCC) tells me that the new machine's group heads spurt coffee everywhere when porta filter is removed from the group
Cause: According to Joe at TGCC something is wrong/different in the machining of the newer machines group heads
Fix: Before shipping the machine Joe at TGCC replaced the group head with an older version. He also noted that the four 10 mm nuts holding the grouphead had been changed to 9 mm and did not hold as well as the larger nuts.

Problem: The sight glass lens was broken away from the case - this occurred during shipping.
Cause: The lens was glued into place and the glue failed.
Fix: Joe at TGCC sent me a new sight glass lens free of charge and told me how to install it by bending metal tabs over the lens to hold it. But there were no metal tabs so I glued the lens back with clear silicone.

Problem: Drip tray will not stay in its recess
Cause: 1. Drip recess and ledges are uneven cast features and the tray ledge is not deep enough to retain the plate
Cause: 2. Drip tray warped.
Fixes: Flattened drip tray and hand filed the ledges around the drip tray recess

Problem: The base bangs on the counter top if the unit is moved or rocked.
Cause: The screws holding the rubber feet were not fully inserted. Also the screw bosses at the rear are recessed more than the front making the rear feet short reducing the clearance from the countertop
Fix: Added several washers under the rear feet and ensured that all the screws were inserted correctly.

Problem: When heating the machine made a loud buzzing/rattling noise which curiously varied from mild to scary.
Cause: 1. Possibly electrical contact jitter and sympathetic vibrations?
Cause: 2. One boiler mounting screw was loose.
Cause: 3. The sight glass backplate appeared to be rubbing against the cabinet.
Fix: Tightened everything appropriately and the noise is now a low hum.

Problem: The case had a backwards lean. So much that Joe at TGCC had to machine down the steam knob so that it could turn freely without rubbing against the case.
Cause: 1. Overall poor quality of the base and cabinet.
Cause: 2. The boiler gasket was not fitted correctly
Cause: 3. Case mounting holes misaligned.
Cause: 4. The rear mounting bracket not at 90 degrees
Fix: Trimmed the boiler gasket, re- bent the back bracket, realigned the boiler and realigned the case. However, I was unable to fit the fourth screw due to excessive misalignment of the tapped hole and screw hole.

Problem: One of the electrical tabs on thermal safety switch almost off its connecting post.
Cause: Probably poorly manufactured?
Fix: Carefully riveted the tab onto its connecting post.

Problem: All 64 holes and the outer edges on each of the drip trays have burrs that scratched the paint and are a danger to the user.
Cause: Both drip trays not de-burred in manufacture
Fix: Filed and polished off all the burrs

Problem: Burrs on the baseplate holes and outer edges - these were really sharp and dangerous and were cutting into the rubber feet.
Cause: Not de-burred in manufacture.
Fix: Filed and machined them off.

I have a background in the design and manufacture of scientific and medical equipment which may contribute to some over expectations of quality on my part. Even so, this seems to be a lot of issues in one machine. Also, I am curious if what I found is typical of the PVs in general or of only the later models?

Geoffrey

Geoffrey, your list of quality issues are factors I hope PV addresses. Otherwise people will become hesitant in purchasing a machine that is very capable of pulling decent espresso. The retailer should not have to "setup" & modify every machine they sell.

The PVL 2 I own has mostly "cosmetic" faults.
1. The mounting plate between the groupheads and front face of the casing is not centered relative to the groupheads or the groupheads are not centered.
2. Both the steam and water wand do not exit dead center in the holes drilled in the front face of the case.
3. Lightest gauge metal used of the 4 espresso machines I've owned ('80s Gaggia Coffee, the MCaL & Isomac Tea)
4. One of the portafilter has tabs bit on the thin side. Must be used on right group. If used on left group when locked will interfer with removing right portafilter.
5. The sight glass needs to be positioned ~1cm higher. Relatively useless. Full boiler the water level is above the top of the glass. Before water level reach the bottom the low water cut of switch kicks in.

If any of you followed the LM GS-3 thread where someone listed the problems with the mulit-thousand machine as delivered, us lever buyers would probably be considered lucky. I think in the espresso business there is a lot of manufacturer-vendor fine-tuning that goes on as buyers report issues with their machines. Frankly, I'd guess that Swiss machines are more likely to be built to perfection than are Italian machines. But there is an issue with cost...

All that said, its good that you posted the list, so buyers can be aware of potential issues. Especially because many have to buy sight-unseen through the mail.

RE: some of the issues,

My drip trays had sharp edges, which I filed with emory cloth. I reported it to Vanelis, who said they would correct it on their remaining machines. It also does not stay in the recess well, but I've just learned to work around it. I would like it to work better though, but since the catch tray is not removable, I use a catch basin anyway. I also prop the cup up on a spare filter basket when pouring a shot because the group is set so high up.

In reference to the rubber feet, the base is designed to sit lower in the back for balance during use.

RE: backward lean on the case I'm not sure how much so yours leaned, but Joe has seen lots, so he should know. But again, the rearward lean is, by, design, to balance the machine duirng use.

The noises while heating are definitely a concern, so hopefully your repairs found the problem.

It seems to me if Joe had noted so many problems with the machine he should have sent you a different one. I'm not sure I would be satisfied with having to disassemble a new machine before I could use it.

Dogshot got an Export a year or two ago - you could ask him if he had any issues.

During my many posts in praise of the design of the Export I've always tried to note that the build tolerances are not up to what I would expect from a Cremina. They are what they are, and its important that potential buyers get to read threads like this.

I hope when the dust settles you'll find that the Export lives up to your expectations,

PC

On the bright side, GB, you get to kill two birds with one stone. You get to post a My New Machine thread and a PV Export Restoration thread

Regards
Timo

I think your criticisms are to some degree appropriate, but also a bit out of context. I would love to have seen this list if you had been an earlier purchaser of a GS/3. For an espresso machine that is about the same price as a Gaggia Classic, and less expensive than a Silvia, the Export is vastly more capable. Compared to those machines, I think the Export not only represents excellent value, its build quality is not especially low.

My Export is now a year old, and it has performed beyond my expectations. It is (I believe) a newer machine, and while my biggest criticism of the Export (compared to my Brewtus II) is that I have to wait for the group to lose pressure before I can remove the PF, it is by no means an espresso bomb. If I remove the PF slowly, it will dissipate the pressure just fine, although that leaves more grounds on the screen. In other words, I would never bother to change the group for something like this. The cover to my machine sits a bit askew, such that the steam arm touches the case at its exits point, but this in no way affects aesthetics or performance.

I opened my Brewtus II the other day to do a bit of maintenance, and after having used the Export for a while, the insides of the Brewtus looked like the machine belonged on the set of the movie Brazil. The pureness and simplicity of the Export leads me to be completely forgiving of the drip tray cover (which has never scratched any paint, despite my careless futzing with it). The drip tray actually accommodates the overflow/overspray of an entire day of espresso making, so I think it is in proportion to the rest of the machine.

I'm not trying to challenge your post or problems, but I do suspect that if you were able to examine the Export in the context of other espresso machines at that price-point, rather than comparing it to medical equipment, you account might not be so negative.

Nice to have another PVE owner aboard! I hope your appreciation of its capabilities increases as both mine and PC's have.

Mark

Dogshot wrote:I'm not trying to challenge your post or problems, but I do suspect that if you were able to examine the Export in the context of other espresso machines at that price-point, rather than comparing it to medical equipment, you account might not be so negative.

We're evaluating two Ponte Vecchios as part of the Lever Espresso Machine Smackdown. While I recognize the assembly isn't top drawer (e.g., the pressure gauge is not properly centered), we've had no performance related issues. GB's had more than his fair share of problems and I thank him for sharing these issues so vendors can (1) address them before shipment, or better yet, (2) have the manufacturer spend an extra 5 minutes on quality control before closing the box.

HB wrote:snip... so vendors can (1) address them before shipment, or better yet, (2) have the manufacturer spend an extra 5 minutes on quality control before closing the box.

Good luck with that. I would be happy if respectable toy companies could ensure that children's toys were free of lead paint. It's a steep uphill climb.

Mark

On the issue of portafilter depressurization after a shot, the following techniques can help:

don't overdose
don't overtamp
preinfuse
wait 30-60 seconds after the pull before attempting to remove the portafilter
press down gently on the PF handle as you begin to turn it slightly and wait for any hissing to stop before turning it the rest of the way

Overdosing and overtamping and not bothering to preinfuse can create a situation where the (oversized) puck continues to swell from hydrostatic pressure during the extraction, to the point where it becomes impermeable to 6 bars of brew pressure. You end up with some portion of the brew water trapped, under pressure, above the puck.

Regards
Timo