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Europiccola heating element post broken

Postby javasnow on Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:21 pm

Hi. I've got an old Europiccola on which one of the heating element posts to which a wire attaches broke off. I was going to just replace the heating element, but it's the older screw-in type, which seems to be not available, and I'd have to spend a bunch more money getting extra parts to adapt the newer three-flange version of the heating element to this machine. Is there any way to just repair the post? Could a machinist put in a new screw/terminal into the heating element? The element works fine, it's just the wire attachment screw that broke off.
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Postby stefano65 on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:53 pm

the main concern will be current dispersing on the flange/boiler etc etc
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Postby Jeff on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:24 am

I'm also not one for the thoughts of a water filled metal object plugged into 120 (or 240) V with a questionable connection to the mains inside, even with a known-good GFCI. If one has broken, how long until the other breaks?

Think of the positives, you can at least still buy the parts!
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Postby drgary on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:44 am

Keep in mind that Stefano is an acknowledged expert, so heed his words, and Jeff really knows his way around electricity and restoration. So be very careful if you try this. An espresso part isn't worth your life.

However, taking many precautions I did just what you're asking about on a Microcimbali. It takes some improvisation and care, you do it at your own risk and there are no guarantees, but months later the Microcimbali works fine. That thread is here: Rewiring a La Cimbali Microcimbali. If you try this, you'll need to know your way around a multimeter, be able to draw a circuit diagram and take many precautions, but at least this isn't a moon shot, or at least I hope you're not planning on one!
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Postby javasnow on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:43 pm

OK, so maybe a few photos are in order. Gary, this should be much simpler than what you had to do. No rewiring is necessary. I'm not changing any switches. I just need to replace the one missing short wire that goes from the upper right terminal on the switch (as you are looking at it in the photo below) to the post on the heating element. BTW, the post didn't break by itself; I was trying to remove the wire, and the nut was so rusted onto the screw that turning the nut broke the screw off. I should have doused it with penetrating lubricant to loosen it up, but had no idea it was so fused together. Anway, the first photo shows the overall state right now, and the second a detail of the broken post.

Image

Image

As you can see in the second photo, there is some stuff on the surface. It was so long ago that this happened, that I don't remember exactly what the story was, but I think the wire was faulty somehow, and I was just trying to replace it.
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Postby stefano65 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:28 pm

if if was my machine seating in my kitchen
I will for the piece of mind,
replace the heating element (or due to the $$$ retire the unit or perhaps wait for a used one same age to come around with a good HE can be be removed without damaging it from the boiler)
of course it will not be cheap at all,
considering the flange old style all all the new parts you will need ( HE, thermostat, flange, gasket shorter screw etc etc)
BUT
You will not have to worries about overheating etc etc in the future
PS thermofuse under yellow cover will need to be removed
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Postby stefano65 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:28 pm

if it was my machine seating in my kitchen
I will for the piece of mind,
replace the heating element (or due to the $$$ retire the unit or perhaps wait for a used one same age to come around with a good HE can be be removed without damaging it from the boiler)
of course it will not be cheap at all,
considering the flange old style all all the new parts you will need ( HE, thermostat, flange, gasket shorter screw etc etc)
BUT
You will not have to worries about overheating etc etc in the future
PS thermofuse under yellow cover will need to be removed
Stefano Cremonesi
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair & sales from Oregon.
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Postby drgary on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:16 pm

Michael:

The pictures really help, and in response to them, Stefano's saying it's not worth fixing. Pretty clear. And he sells and fixes Pavonis and other great machines for a living for a long time now.

If you decide to try and take that on it looks harder than mine was. There's no stub sticking up that you can attach anything to, and mine wasn't rusting or burned looking. You would probably have to remove the ceramic insulator to get at what's left of the screw, create some insulator on the base to prevent a short, screw something around the remaining stub if it would fit and on the other end have a terminal to attach your heating element wire, then build up an epoxy insulator around that and seal it with glyptal. But even then, the base looks like it's rusting or corroding so there may be some leak already and it would quickly and dangerously short out on you.

As an amateur I see other things that would cause me concern:

- A scorched ceramic insulator, indicating too much heat build-up while it may have been failing.
- Rust infiltrating the base.

Somehow water was getting in and causing rust that was the start of this problem.

Taking Stefano's hint, if you really like that vintage of Pavoni you could find another parts-only machine and combine parts. Or, you might piece out the good parts on this one to supplement your budget for a better unit you can find online. From time to time I see used Pavonis in great shape advertised for under $300 if you keep your eyes peeled. I recently jumped on one of those and am quite happy with my find. No rust, no broken heating elements, good seals, pre-Millennium build quality, like going back in time and finding it on the shelf at Zabar's.
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Postby coelcanth on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:59 am

clean off the remaining bit of post,
clip the terminal off the corresponding wire
and solder the wire directly to the post..

doesn't seem like a huge deal to me,
better than an expensive fix...
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Postby drgary on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:25 am

What kind of solder holds up to that heat? I'm sure there is one, just curious in case I run into that situation again.

Also, where's the water coming from that caused the problem in the first place? If you're going to try and fix this you don't want it to rust through.
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