frege wrote:

I get superlative espresso from my elektra- best I've ever had. Ever.

and

I don't want to read that I bought a piece of crap for C$1600

I'm having difficulty following the logic of these statements. If the Elektra makes the best espresso that you've ever had, how can it be a POC?

Because spring levers do tend to produce less crema than do pump machines, I've always tended to think that they operate under a little less pressure. I've never done any calculations as timo has, but I've never felt the need - I like my lever machine at any pressure.

Espresso is an art that defies brew pressure, shot timing, temperature profiles, and all the rest of that nonsense associated with a mathematical/statistical approach to repeatable results. There are so many other variables that influence how much one enjoys the two or so ounces of extract sitting in the bottom of the cup, that I long ago gave up worrying about counting and measuring.

As an aside, I've often wondered about the objectivity of consumer reviews, such as those on coffeegeek. I've always suspected that once someone had spent a reasonably large sum of $ on an espresso machine, they'd tend to give it a good review.

Peace,

PC

Spring lever videos:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...r-video-t1961.html

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...r-video-t3687.html

PC

Thanks...peacecup. Lovely videos.

Further to the thoughts expressed here...I thought a spring producing 6 or 7 bar is sufficient...as unlike a pump which will only output sufficient to "see" 9 bar at the output, a spring will exert 6 bar all the time...regardless of load...and so with a fully loaded and packed portafilter, will actually exert 9 bar pressure on the coffee bed. Maybe somebody with appropriate equipment can do a test.

Can I be Paul Newman? Or at least Strother Martin? Cool

Timo, with that stony avatar of yours, I had figured you for the James Coburn type.



Thanks for your wisdom. I'll try PC's methods this week and experiment with lighter tamping after I have the basics down.

Malcolm

msmith wrote:

Can I be Paul Newman? Or at least Strother Martin? Cool

Timo, with that stony avatar of yours, I had figured you for the James Coburn type.



Thanks for your wisdom. I'll try PC's methods this week and experiment with lighter tamping after I have the basics down.

The light tamp versus heavy tamp dialectic is much like Paul Newman digging that hole only to have to fill it in afterwards, in Cool Hand Luke.

You have to ask yourself, Why do I consider heavier tamping "basic" and lighter tamping "experimental"?
Mindshare. The tampanistas have a formidable propaganda apparatus.

A light tamp is the best protection against channeling.

Regards
Timo

Your thoughts on tamping are worth some serious consideration Timo. Channeling has always been a bit of bugbear with my Rancilio, even after careful application of the WDT. The one thing I had never varied though, was a rather emphatic tamp.

As to the debate of "this many bars" versus "that many bars", it all seems kind of pointless. Similar to deciding to dislike a wine you've always enjoyed after discovering that Robert Parker gave it a sub-90 rating. I think we can all agree that the spring lever machines are capable of excellent espresso. Even I can see in my early experience with my Elektra it's possible. If these machines manage that feat at a brewing pressure of less than that of a pump, then that's just fine with me.

I've taken KarlSchneider's lead and named my machine. Being of somewhat less refined tastes, I have christened her "Buffy The Vibepump Slayer."

Malcolm

A light tamp is the best protection against channeling.

I'm not sure I agree with this. My experience is that a too-lightly tamped puck tends to be easily damaged, and I would propose, therefore, more easily channelized. Early on in my tampanista days I tamped VERY hard - I got consistent, non-channelized results this way. Lately I have gone to a lighter tamp and finer grind, and I think this works well for the dose and beans I currently use. I do still consistently tamp hard enough to keep the puck intact.

PC

peacecup wrote:I'm having difficulty following the logic of these statements. If the Elektra makes the best espresso that you've ever had, how can it be a POC?

It's not, I'm sorry, and Timo, I read too much into your comments and was an idiot to say these things.

Carry on.

peacecup wrote:As an aside, I've often wondered about the objectivity of consumer reviews, such as those on coffeegeek. I've always suspected that once someone had spent a reasonably large sum of $ on an espresso machine, they'd tend to give it a good review.

If the consumer reviewer waits long enough after the "honeymoon phase" and has comparative experience, there's a better chance the writeup will be objective. Otherwise they tend to read like a lover's soliloquy.

frege wrote:... Timo, I read too much into your comments and was an idiot to say these things.

Carry on.

Don't worry about it. I believe Zidane also was over-reacting to similarly innocuous remarks Materazzi had made about vintage Reneka levers.

Regards
Timo