Having just finished the restoration of my Gaggia Orione (resto pics to come in a separate thread), I'm now trying to get a handle on what a "normal" shot looks like.

The biggest problem I'm having is low shot volume, followed closely by the actual shot timing, not including pre-infusion, which is the third problem.

Since this is the first commercial lever i've ever used, I'm starting off grinding finer and tamping lighter, and dosing a bit lighter than I would on my pump machine. I'm pretty sure I've found the choked-out grind level, but when i ease up the grind, the lever handle essentially raises with very little resistance, and the shot dribbles out instead of forming mouse tails. If i wait a few minutes and catch all the dribbles i get a few ounces, but the in the crux of the pull, i only get about 0.5 - 0.75 oz.

I'm attempting to use the Fellini pre-infusion technique, but it takes close to a minute until i see the first drops, at which point, i let the handle raise, and get a shot like the above. Using a coarser grind, speeds up the pre-infusion drop formation, but then i get no resistance in the handle for the rest of the pull, and get the dribbley shot.

I'm starting to wonder if i need to adjust the actual group "settings" to get the pull volume up and the pressure more "concentrated" to produce the mouse tails i see coming from all the other commercial levers out there.

Any tips, comments, or feedback is greatly appreciated

Never had an Orione....is it HX or dipper tube feed? Shot volume is pretty much fixed but additive on the amount of water during preinfusion. but no more than 10-15 seconds. Been watching some youtube videos of Italian coffee bars using levers and the preinfusion is pretty long, but of course unknown machines.


THIS is what it is all about...true art!

itsallaroundyou wrote:The biggest problem I'm having is low shot volume, followed closely by the actual shot timing, not including pre-infusion, which is the third problem.

I'm attempting to use the Fellini pre-infusion technique, but it takes close to a minute until i see the first drops, at which point, i let the handle raise, and get a shot like the above. Using a coarser grind, speeds up the pre-infusion drop formation, but then i get no resistance in the handle for the rest of the pull, and get the dribbley shot.

Any tips, comments, or feedback is greatly appreciated

Techniques on one lever don't necessarily transfer to another - but the following routine has worked well on my "Brugnetti/Aurora/Termazona. Overfill a double basket and tap the portafilter downward lightly to settle the coffee. Tamp. 10 second pre-infusions. Release lever holding lightly to the point of resistance so that it doesn't "snap" up. Adjust the grind for an approximately 20 second post preinfusion shot.

Sorry to say it almost sounds like old coffee beans. At least that's what happens with old beans - one grind chokes, a little coarser makes bad shots.

thanks for all the tips and suggestions so far. i'm quickly learning that the restoration isn't done until its making drinkable espressos (regardless of how shiny all the parts are )

hperry--in the pre-infusion you do, do you wait to see droplets? or just wait 10 seconds and go?

peacecup--beans were 24-hr post roast, i'm using a mazzer mini, with very moderately used burrs, so maybe part of the culprit is there?

I have a hunch that I might not have screwed the middle "nut" down enough in the group to compress the stack of gaskets, and might be losing a little water to inside the piston cavity. i need to take it apart to verify this. i'm about to post the restoration pics, so i'll edit this to add a link so you can see what parts i'm talking about (if you're unfamiliar).

itsallaroundyou wrote:hperry--in the pre-infusion you do, do you wait to see droplets? or just wait 10 seconds and go?

On my unit drips never appear with most beans and the doses that I am using.

here's a link to the resto pics: Restoration of a Gaggia Orione (lots of pics)

itsallaroundyou wrote:
I have a hunch that I might not have screwed the middle "nut" down enough in the group to compress the stack of gaskets, and might be losing a little water to inside the piston cavity. i need to take it apart to verify this. i'm about to post the restoration pics, so i'll edit this to add a link so you can see what parts i'm talking about (if you're unfamiliar).

from memory, this is cranked down til about 15-20mm thread is exposed. fwiw, I could not get the modern replacements to seal properly. In the end, I used 2x lip seals (ie, another of the same type in your machine currently) and took a couple of fibre ones out to make room. I can't remember who recommended this. As a consequence, my gr top still sits a little higher than yours.

i've made some progress tonight. first, i tightened down the middle nut, which seems to have made a better seal on the piston. this seems to have helped my low volume problem. the second thing i noticed was that during pre-infusion, i need to pump the handle a few times to get resistance on the spring, i think this is purging the column of air out and replacing it with water (someone correct me if my assumption is wrong). this might also have helped the volume problem, if the space was mostly filled with air.

Doug---forgot to reply to your question--this is a dipper tube style lever.

i think tomorrow, i will focus on grind and tamp and see if that will get me the mouse tails, now that i've made a few adjustments. And despite the voice in my head saying not to, I'm gonna adjust the nut between the group and the piston, because i think that is set too tight and is compromising the flow.

paul--my gasket arrangement, from the bottom to the top is as follows:
brass o-ring (the type that is pyramid in cross-section) and an accompanying rubber lip seal, then another brass o-ring and lip seal, then a paper gasket, then the thinner of the two brass rings with 3 holes (i was instructed not to align the hole on that ring with the feed line from the boiler), then another paper gasket, then another brass o-ring and rubber lip seal, then the large brass ring with two holes drilled in the side, then a thin flat brass gasket on top of it all. I have no fiber gaskets in the rebuild. perhaps if you have these same parts you can try rebuilding like that to get a better seal?

after playing around with various settings, I'm pretty close to having everything worked out. I'm getting about 1 oz in 30-40 secs (with 10 secs being for preinfusion), with an additional .75 oz that dribbles out after the mouse tails stop. Crema is surprisingly good and thick, and doesn't dissipate very quickly. Flavor isn't quite where i'd like it to be, but that's just indicative of me not nailing the temps yet.

In the video posted above (and in most others i've seen) the barista pulls the handle down with relative ease, and it stays down until manually lifted again. Mine does not do this since the spring is always pulling the handle back up. How can a spring lever stay down on its own? Mine has a little metal catch that will allow the handle to stay down, do these others work the same way?

Another oddity i noticed was that in my initial experimentation, the brass dispersion screen was a bit loose, allowing water to come out around the edges. when i tightened it down, it severely restricted the flow of water from the group. I don't see any way around this unless the screen is supposed to be convex---can anyone with experience with this group confirm this?

itsallaroundyou wrote:In the video posted above (and in most others i've seen) the barista pulls the handle down with relative ease, and it stays down until manually lifted again. Mine does not do this since the spring is always pulling the handle back up. How can a spring lever stay down on its own? Mine has a little metal catch that will allow the handle to stay down, do these others work the same way?

The Gaggia lever has a little hook that falls forward and engages with a cam on the top of the group to stop the lever rising again (the pinion part of the rack and pinion mechanism). If the hinge for that hook is too stiff it will not fall forward and engage.