Hello everyone,

I'm getting started with a bag of Klatch Belle Espresso (at day 6) and I'm trying out something new with this coffee. Today I attempted two different shot styles: my usual two pulls after an 8 second preinfusion, and 3 second standard preinfusion, a Fellini preinfusion (until there is beading at the bottom of the basket), and then two pulls. Both are at 14g. The Fellini method is giving a more bitter shot, but I like the shot volume that I'm getting. So I turn to the forum's Ponte Vecchio experts for advice: should I stick with the standard two pulls, or can I inch my way to a coarser grind for better Fellini-preinfused shot?

Today was the first time that a Fellini and two pulls shot came out perfectly colored and without any sort of system meltdown symptoms - that's why I opened this question. The nice looking pour gave me hope that I can work with the higher shot volume (and I know some successfully do).

Thanks for your input!

In spite of the fact that there are posters with stellar reputations who swear that they get good shots with two lever pulls, it has never worked for me with any of the levers I use. My experience is that running water through a puck twice gives unsatisfactory results. A "Fellini" which does a form of pre-infusion is viable. But I would expect the results that you report from a Fellini plus two.

i may be a philistine... but I routinely make double pulls plus fellini on the lusso.

I like them. yummy- and a stronger. Sometimes I leave out the fellini- when the grind is just right and I hardly get a drop on pre-infusion. Other times if I want a small macchiato I do a fellini and single pull.

I am sure the first pull produces most of the best part of the shot. I just like a larger volume and with milk- I don't find my espresso too bitter.

In my opinion a 14g:15ml, one-pull on the PonteVecchio is simply too high a brew ratio. It can taste good, but it is really very concentrated. One pull on the PV only yields 15 mls, and even with an added Fellini pre-infusion you're in a very high brew ratio range. A "normal" ristretto is 14g:30ml.

Hal - it would be like dosing 14g on your commercial lever, and stopping the pull when there is about 15 ml in the cup.

So, for the past 3-4 years I've been taking 2 or more pulls with the PV double basket. I don't see any fundemental difference between one pull vs. two pulls, as long as the puck is not disturbed. Hal - try stopping the lever on you commerical machine for about 5 secs halfway through the pull, then letting it start again. This is basically the same as a two-pull PV (again, if the puck is not disturbed).

SO, you must grind, dose, and tamp so that the puck is not disturbed. In my opinion a fuller dose and at least a lightly-firm tamp (10 lbs?) is the best way to achieve this. Then grind accordingly. When done properly, for the preinfusion I pull the lever all the way down, then slowly let it rise until a drop falls into the cup. This could take 10 sec, maybe more, and a considerable degree of lever travel. Then I begin the two-pull shot.

And forget the clock entirely. Timing shots is espresso 101, and you graduated from that class before your even ordered the Lusso. I casually noted that my afterlunch espresso on the Caravel yesterday took over 1 minute from the time I started preinfusion until the shot finished pouring.

Trust me, I have not been drinking bitter espresso the past four years.

PC

Oh, and 14g may be too low a dose for a good two-pull shot.

YMMWV.

Variables:

*Dose
*Grind
*Tamp
*Boiler pressure
*Group temperature
*Varietal/blend/roast depth/age

I've tried a number of pull techniques on my Lusso after acquiring it about 3 months ago. PC's approach works nicely and I would advocate it. I would make the following additional points:

- go slowly!
- a fine grind and a light tamp works remarkably well. As much as it is tempting to grinder coarser and tamp harder, you are better off not to. It took me a while to wean off old habits, but it just seems to work beautifully with the PV's. The puck seems to be more stable with less channel risk. A 'light tamp' really means that - just a few pounds of pressure. To me, 14 pounds is the max, allowing enough headspace for the puck to expand on your active preinfusion without stalling the lever
- and try to insert your PF with the lever half way cocked, just before the water flushes out

And then, enjoy!

my method is along these lines. I pack nearly to the top and grind fine. You can tell by the flow and rise of the lever when you have it- and it easier to get than miss in my experience. The PV continues to impress me with its ease of use. Whenever I fire up a Pavoni I remember what I fine art it is- it always takes 4 shots just to get the feel of the bean.

I like and use Fellini and two pulls on the Lusso, and the shots are not bitter, but very good!

My tips for success:

1. The shot should drip and flow slowly, without stalling.
2. Tamp at about 7-10 pounds.
3. Full dose—I overfill my double basket, cover it with the single and toss up, then level and tamp. This makes for an updosed basket with good distribution.
4. On the first full pull, do not allow the piston to bottom out—start the second pull before this happens.

I typically get a 3/4—1 ounce pull with the above technique.

Good luck!

sorrentinacoffee wrote:The PV continues to impress me with its ease of use. Whenever I fire up a Pavoni I remember what I fine art it is- it always takes 4 shots just to get the feel of the bean.

Ain't that the truth. For old time's sake, I fired up my 13 year old Pavoni yesterday for the first time since getting my Lusso in July. The shot, with Klatch's Belle Espresso, was ashy and bitter. I'll try again shortly with the Lusso, and I'm confident the shot will be spot-on, though a bit more of a ristretto than I prefer (still working on the volume).