jn_nz

This is slightly off topic, but when you're doing multiples pulls like this.. what sort of shot timing do you expect from each pull...

For me and the Ponte Vecchio, time does not come into the espresso equation. Rather, I aim for a shot that drips and flows slowly, without stalling.

ok.. so 'go with the flow' . Easy enough, thanks

jn_nz wrote:This is slightly off topic, but when you're doing multiples pulls like this.. what sort of shot timing do you expect from each pull (not counting the pre-infusion time). Do you still aim for each pull in the 25-30sec range?

I know this will vary for each user and depend on your preference of dose/tamp/grind but as a rough guideline it would be good to know where to begin

You're not pulling two singles in succession, but two halves of a double, so each pull is roughly half an extraction and so roughly half the time of an extraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssmp1Virgd0

Now I wonder if it's wise to pull all the way down on the second pull -- given that water will enter the cylinder well before the piston tops out. Releasing the lever before the very end of travel might prevent the dreaded "SCHLURP!" of puck-sucking (very noticeable with naked portafilters) and thus make better extractions on the second pull. Sound good? I shall experiment tonight.

Hey Timo,

Great looking shot. Do you normally get significantly more flow from one spout than the other? I've been using a naked PF with my Lusso, so I'm not sure if that's an idiosyncracy of the normal PF or not.

Also, when I was watching the pull, I kept willing your camera to pan up so I could see your pulling procedure. Hate to say it, but I'm still a little unclear about the Fellini pull. Haven't searched HB to find the discussion that included the shots from the Fellini movie where the Italian Barista does this... I hope to have some time at some point. Right now, I'm fiddling with different pulls and seeing what I like. Heck, that's half the fun of the Lusso. What's really been interesting is that with the naked PF, you can see how the pressure on the puck varies at different points in a pull, and how flow changes from a first to second pull. The second pull seems to result in a far wilder and unpredictable flow. That would indicate a break in puck integrity to me. The fun continues!...

Thanks for everyone's input on this thread! After experimenting with fine grind, light tamp, and the Fellini + two pulls, I've still settled back on the coarser grind, firmer tamp, and two pulls (no Fellini move). It just tastes better - my experience in the past few days has been that the last pull (if I start with the Fellini move) is too thin and dilutes the shot too much, taking away the syrupy body from the first pull.

aindfan

It just tastes better

That's the measure!

I do use a Fellini pull, but the reason I think it works for me and my machine, and that I even find it necessary, is that I keep my boiler pressure relatively low, between .8 and .5 bar, this because I prefer the temperature in the cup in this range. I wait until the boiler is topped off at .8 before I pull, because the feed pressure at .5 bar is anemic.

I am guessing that with a higher boiler pressure and thus greater water feed to the group, the Fellini pull would be less productive and possibly more disruptive.

DUPLICATE

RAS wrote:Hey Timo,

Great looking shot. Do you normally get significantly more flow from one spout than the other? I've been using a naked PF with my Lusso, so I'm not sure if that's an idiosyncracy of the normal PF or not.

Also, when I was watching the pull, I kept willing your camera to pan up so I could see your pulling procedure. Hate to say it, but I'm still a little unclear about the Fellini pull. Haven't searched HB to find the discussion that included the shots from the Fellini movie where the Italian Barista does this... I hope to have some time at some point. Right now, I'm fiddling with different pulls and seeing what I like. Heck, that's half the fun of the Lusso. What's really been interesting is that with the naked PF, you can see how the pressure on the puck varies at different points in a pull, and how flow changes from a first to second pull. The second pull seems to result in a far wilder and unpredictable flow. That would indicate a break in puck integrity to me. The fun continues!...

I don't have the Lusso any longer (it was a loaner and I was sad to have to part with it) but the flow was always better out of the one spout. Pretty sure it was a PF idiosyncracy, not a distribution issue.

Preinfusion: I do a partial pull with my hand restraining the lever so the spring is not decompressing under its own (full) force. I want to keep the preinfusion ~ 2 bars.

My second pulls on the Lusso flow faster than the first. 10 versus 15 seconds. I attribute that to depletion of the coffee "bed" ("puck" would not be an apt metaphor for what is in my filter basket) -- though there may be some disruption of the integrity too; however, the puck tends to heal itself quickly if the grind and tamp permit. I would ease into the second release of the lever, so as not to give a disturbed puck the full 6 bars all at once, minimizing any ill effects of a disruption.