Can someone measure their "double" basket and compare to mine please? I am trying to determine with some certainty which size basket I actually have:
Thanks. Ted

MINE IS:
From top edge of basket to the bottom of the basket it is exactly 20 mm. total depth.

From the top edge down to the line where the basket begins to narrow into its cupped shape form it
is approx. 8 or 9 mm.

Mine is the tapered small double: 25mm height measured perpendicular to top, the actual length of the side is 27mm.

hth

Mike

Thanks, I kind of thought mine must be the "single" basket based on what others are able to get into their baskets.
I guess its the height of foolishness to pre-suppose I could find/source/buy a Caravel "double basket" somewhere?

Any recommendatios?

Thanlks for taking the time to do the measurement for me.
Ted

I seem to recall Orphan Espresso had some double baskets made, but it looks as though they have run out.

It's always worth dropping them a line, one way or another. You'll get an answer within a day in most cases. They are very knowledgeable and helpful on lever machines and both (Doug and Barb) lovely people.

They have two pages of Caravel parts. This is the one for the newer machines with the seals in the cylinder walls: http://www.orphanespresso.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_46&zenid=2be4492ae98b7c00fa40f237aafa6117

Cheers

Mike

I have an original double, OE double, and original single basket. I'd just like to weigh in with some comments.

First, I typically dose in the double baskets (both...they take similar amounts but different shaped) anywhere from 8-10g. I consider 10g an overdose as I have to distribute and "chop" the coffee down with the handle of a spoon. When reading threads earlier I tried the 12-14g dose by really cramming it full, but for some reason I never much liked that dose with the level of roast I do.

But to give a comparison, trying Illy pre-ground for espresso, I can get 14g in there no problems and I'm sure if I tried 16g could go. Probably the darker roast combined with grind size etc...I actually don't know why!

The single basket by comparison can take about 6-7g, and actually is pretty interesting for bright central American coffees. Unfortunately I messed mine up a bit trying to unblock the holes in the bottom and ended up enlarging them. So now pressure is hard to get right and a bit of fines get in the cup.

I wouldn't worry about your baskets, I've found that they pretty much don't make that big of a difference with the Caravel, and it's best to just tune your shots and let taste be your guide. Try everything from 5-max grams in the thing and see what you like? Because if you think the 5g is the best shot ever, no one is going to tell you your wrong, and it's worth a little coffee to experiment sometimes.

You might have the single basket, I'll take a look when I get home today and see if I can measure it, I'll also take a picture next to the other baskets.

I've been away from the forums so much lately, honestly the Caravel just makes great coffee so often I don't feel much need to look for improvements. But I know they are there if I take the time!

Hey,

I wanted to revive this thread to start the discussion of Caravel technique for the new generation of owners. I read this whole thread about a year ago when I first got mine and I have forgotten how much great information is located here. Thanks to George (gvdub) and all the others who have posted here. Good stuff, it is a veritable textbook of successful Caravel styles, of which there are several .

Here goes:

Just got a bag of Red Bird yesterday. Today is 5 days post roast. Using the Caravel big straight walled double basket, I dosed 16.5 grams from the Pharos. Using the 12 hour dial provided by petrush (here - Owner experience with Pharos manual coffee grinder by Orphan Espresso set on 5.8, or just below halfway.

~sidebar~ I think my 2 year old absconded with my Doug Garrott signature model orange dead blow hammer that I use to knock all the grinds out with. I can't find it. I go back and forth between drip grind and espresso grind and I have had some issues with leftovers mixing together. I think I have it worked out now, but I had to waste two whole doses this morning.

At 199 degrees, I used the Fellini move (pull to one drop and raise all the way back up). Then down with a fairly restrictive pull. The new suction cups held, but barely. It was one of those pulls that produced a fast drip all the way to the bottom. There was no sign of blonding, so I raised and pulled again. About 1/4 way down the fast drip gave way to a stream and then around halfway down or more the stream thinned out, my interpretation of blonding. I finished the pull anyway.

I forgot to weigh the result. I am trying to do this so I can use brew ratio as a guide on this quest, but I keep forgetting to tare the scale with the empty cup on it. And all my cups have different weights, I checked. Will include this info next time.

Anywho - the result in the cup was pretty darn good. When I read about peanut flavors being a feature of this coffee, it didn't sound awesome. But I did detect peanuts in there with a whole bunch of other stuff - cocoa and some kind of woody taste. My vocabulary is limited, but this is the fun of it because I am learning. I do know it had a lot going on, was very balanced with not much acid. I have been drinking an SO espresso that is very bright and I like it. This was from the other end of the spectrum and I liked it as well.

Back to the big double basket: I only have this big one and the tiny single basket. I have found it easier to get pleasing extractions from the small single, but the volume is troubling! I need a bit more for my one (or two) shots before booking out the door for work. So the big one has been hard to get right. I am certain that my distribution and tamping aren't perfect. My grind hasn't been consistent (not Pharos' fault, mine) yet. The cool thing about the manual lever is that you know right away if your pull will be good or not by the resistance you feel. I think I may have damaged the original element by really leaning on the lever when I should have aborted. Back to topic; when the big basket is dialed in, a double pull with a good volume of syrupy delights is not a problem! So, that is my goal, get the big basket dialed in.

So what do you got going these days?

Pete

So what do you got going these days?

Waiting to either buy or make a portafilter for my yellow VAM....

But from memory, in the years I used the Caravel I gravitated towards very full doses, because I found that was the only solution to the early blonding that Caravel shots are prone to. Almost all Caravel users report that the shots blond before the end of the pull. Mine did not, and I attribute this not to the quantity of coffee in the full basket, but to the stability of the puck. Anything less than full is easily disturbed, and subsequently poorly-extracted.

I used the large, but not straight-walled basket. I filled it to the top, I mean level with the basket lip. The shape of my group required no room for headspace in the basket, and when I left headspace I got the dreaded early blonding. With the blends I used these were 16g shots, and they nearly always weighed 30-40 grams espresso in cup. Perfect 16:32g ristrettos. I even dried several pucks (they always popped out of the basket intact). They were very consistenly 3g lighter after extraction (I think it was 3). This equals around 20% solids extraction (3:16g).

If I were using the straight-walled basket I would be in the 18-20g range I guess, with the blends I use.

When using the Caravel, I suggest forgetting anything you've ever heard about time in relation to espresso. Like the machine itself, Caravel shots should be timeless. I remember my best shots being an endless process of leaning on the lever and patiently pushing the elixr through the puck one drop at time. I found having the machine on a desk (i.e., lower than a counter-top) was the best ergonomically,

With the Ponte Vecchio I really like the straight-walled baskets, and I would love to get one for the VAM,. In fact, I've thought about modifying a PV portafilter and basket to solve the VAM pf issue.

dumpshot wrote:Hey,

...Owner experience with Pharos manual coffee grinder by Orphan Espresso[/url] set on 5.8, or just below halfway.

~sidebar~ I think my 2 year old absconded with my Doug Garrott signature model orange dead blow hammer that I use to knock all the grinds out with. I can't find it. I go back and forth between drip grind and espresso grind and I have had some issues with leftovers mixing together. I think I have it worked out now, but I had to waste two whole doses this morning.

...
Pete

Thanks for the morning chuckle. Loved the story.

peacecup wrote:But from memory, in the years I used the Caravel I gravitated towards very full doses, because I found that was the only solution to the early blonding that Caravel shots are prone to. Almost all Caravel users report that the shots blond before the end of the pull. Mine did not, and I attribute this not to the quantity of coffee in the full basket, but to the stability of the puck. Anything less than full is easily disturbed, and subsequently poorly-extracted.

Good point. I have been trying to do same. This 16.5 gram dose that I just drank was mounded roughly 3 meters over the basket when poured, only the dosing funnel holding it in. Careful massage of the pile and light tamp put it just below the rim. That was a fluffy grind right there.

Jack, do you think this phenomenon with the Caravel has to do with basket shape more than anything, i.e., narrow diameter and deep vs. wide and shallow on the commercial-sized groups?

Waiting to either buy or make a portafilter for my yellow VAM....

Let's get you a portafilter, pronto, pardner! I would like to hear about a PV/Caravel shootout. We had talked about getting Richard Penney to make some naked portafilters. He said he would do it through OE, but I believe there would need to be a minimum number of pre-orders? 10?
I don't want to speak for Richard or for Orphan Espresso, but is there interest out there for naked PFs for Caravels? I know the price last time was $165, so I assume that is the ballpark figure. Not cheap, but it is a highly skilled custom product. I know it would help me with my process.

Informally, is there any interest out there? If so, then we can formally ask OE and Richard how to move forward.

Pete