Gentlefolk,

Recently stumbled across the Bosco single lever ( http://londiniumespresso.com/collection...-equipment ) whilst cruising the net-herworld and was wondering how it might square up against the Izzo Pompei as a single group for low volume commercial. Some friends are looking at market usage so Gas-ability is important for them.

In general though we seem a little light on information on the Bosco so I thought it might be a good time to ask and get something out there for the curious.

I know at least 1 HB-er has one of the Boscos so it would be great to get a write up from him or anyone else who's got /used one.

Sneaky

I just happen to own a 1 group Bosco but never have an Izzo. Do you think I might be qualified to answer?

1. The purchase: Bosco doesn't often make 1 group machine. Most of the time they make 2-4 groups machine. I got mine a bit late than the expected date. Roberta, Mr Bosco's daugther, is very helpful in taking order. This manufacturer is a small company and they can make 1-2 machines a week. So please expect 1-2 months lead time.

2. The impression: They order components from leading manufacturers, such as groups, valves, heater, pressurestat, etc., but they make their own boiler, frame, and shell. I find the quality of the components inside is of high standard, but the workmanship is a bit sloppy. If you take a close look at the gold plated group cover, it is very badly welded. I took mine off. If you take a look inside the machine, the welding is not beautiful, but it works flawlessly. All the welding is done by hand, so don't expect a robot like finish.

3. The coffee: it is just beautiful and very intense. Single origin is now more dimensional and complex. It can make me forget my Speedster for a while. After drinking the espresso from this machine, I don't care how bad the workmanship is.

4. The milk: they use an all-direction stick activated valve, and no-burn steam wand with 2 holes tip. I find the power is too strong. I prefer the turning knob, because I can control the power of the steam.

If you intend to use it commercially, I suggest at least get a two-group. One group is just too light and very slow. It is good for home use. Personally, I don't like gas powered machine because it is trickier to control the temperature.

Hi coffeecircus
your infos are very useful
what do you mean that the 1 group machine is slow and light?
how long does it take to get heated, to be ready for a shot?

Slow = After the shot is done, I have to wait for the pressure to drip out some before unlocking the portafilter. It is not as convenient as pump machine if one wants to pull shot after shot. In a low commercial environment, if one happens to choke the shot and there are few orders in line, he can't do anything but wait till it's done. If he is on a two-group, just corrects the dosing/grinding and goes on to the next group.

Light = When pushing the portafilter in, the machine can move to the right. This won't happen on my friend's two group machine.

Heating up can be done in 15 minutes, but to let the group fully saturated with heat may takes few hours. I leave my machine on 24/7. When pulling shot in the morning, I can feel the warmth at the lever black plastic handle.

To throw another into the mix also look at the Fiorenzato 1 group. The boiler sits about 150mm clear of the Stainless bottom tray and there is plenty of space around it.

The comments on the Bosco above are true of any lever and if you are looking at Markets or outside jobs 2 groups or even 3 is the way to go. Shot times including preinfusion of around 50 seconds are normal followed by a short wait before you can unlock without getting messy, this limits you to 50-60 cups an hour. Heat up time on Gas should if anything be quicker as some of the excess radiated heat from the burner will hit the dipper/group instead of just relying on boiler heat to do this.

Not sure what sized group the Bosco is but just a general comment on 58 vs 55mm (Izzo) the smaller ones are easier to get a great shot from than the bigger ones.

Boscos have a great reputation for being a cast-iron machine, with one hell of a robust spring.

The comments about releasing the pressure strike me as somewhat strange. All you have to do - as on any spring lever - is pull the lever down slightly to raise the piston a little and remove the PF.

Cheers

Mike

The benefit of spring lever over pump machine, IMHO, is the cleanliness after making coffee. Because the piston pushed all the water down and has no back pressure, so the gasket, screen, and piston are kept clean from coffee oil (giving that I prefer a little under dose).

I sometimes do the trick abovementioned if I am in a hurry, but I would rather wait till it stops dripping then to remove the portafilter in order to avoid somewhat wet puck. This is just my preference of making coffee, not a right or wrong way.

I sometimes do the trick abovementioned if I am in a hurry, but I would rather wait till it stops dripping then to remove the portafilter in order to avoid somewhat wet puck. This is just my preference of making coffee, not a right or wrong way.

Absolutely with you there. If you're not in a hurry, there's no need....

Hello one and all and thanks for all the advice.

Here's another on - don't drop your laptop on a tiled floor. Sorry for being so late to respond but nearly lost my e-life support machine!

I guess I should have emphasised that the unit will have to do domestic duty as well as light commercial so a two lever is not what they're after. Thanks for suggestiong the fiorenzato - they also looked at the cheaper astoria BUT much prefer the looks of the izzo and the Bosco and simply don't want to risk a Lambro / Prestina or other refurbed vintage. To be honest any of these machines is likely to be over the top in this particular situation - a 2 headed PV Lusso would probably suit them just as well but that's another story.

So getting back to the bosco - coffeecircus, you were the very man I was targetting with this: thanks for coming out to play!

It'd be great to see under the hood just to confirm that those welds are what one should expect of a commercial machine's guts: ie workmanlike or utilitarian (rather than rough). If you've got a moment next time you take the case off then please do post something up, cc.

The 55mm vs 58mm debate is a puzzler - I guess one gets used to what one has pretty quickly and adjusts accordingly. I don't have much experience of shifting between different sizes (nearly all my machines are 49mm) and even when I do it's usually for a longer period rather than back and forth in the same day/week so I don't get that kind of comparison - but even so (leaving aside grinder settings and warm up times etc) wouldn't spring pressure and grouphead thermal mass play just as much a part as portafilter size in any given machine's performance? Difficult from my position to tell how just the piston size could be so important? You do have the jump on me on experience here though flyingbean so please do correct the error of my ways!

hopefully a few more bosco owners will come out of the woodwork - I guess the bombproof element might be why we don't see a huge amount of these on craigslist/ebay etc - too busy working to be sold on!
sneaky.

Sneaky

Our 1 group Bosco demo machine is somewhere in the bowels of DHL's empire, with some luck it will arrive this week in one piece. You are welcome to come down and give it a whirl when we get it set-up.

Bosco are small family firm in Naples that have been making these lever machines since 1950. As with other lever machines they do nice things to single origin espresso, i.e. they open it out and allow you to taste the subtle elements in the bean. You can dismiss this if you like, but i think its worth trying it first.

We like the simplicity of lever machines and are of the heretical view that espresso by numbers has reached its zenith. We think its time to develop a feel for what you are doing with the machine. Time will tell if we are correct. I am unable to provide a scientific explanation why a lever beats an electric pump, but our taste buds think it does. Linear pressure and temperature throughout the extraction is clearly not optimal in the manner it was sold to be.

For example, there is a marked difference between the quality of the espresso from an Olympia Cremina and an Olympia Maximatic. If you are shown how to use a lever they do not need to be intimidating or inconsistent. If you are used to the Cremina you will find the big spring lever almost 'automatic' in nature as it obviously regulates the extraction for you which improves shot consistency enormously. If you paired it with a doser-less electronic grinder I cant see why you would struggle.

I will make enquiries about the gas conversion kit for you with Bosco as I have not yet seen this in operation.

If I talk very nicely to Roberta Bosco I might even persuade her to join H-B and you can have your questions answered at source.

Please find images showing the group cap finish (not our machine) which has now been brought in-house so I don't see this being an issue going forward, and also a close-up of the boiler weld (our machine) which admittedly wouldn't win many prizes at Pebble Beach, but does it need to?

It does however make first class espresso. The engineering is simple, robust, reliable, and easy for anyone half mechanically inclined to fix. This means less downtime and that means better trading results. For most commercial operators that is quite important. If you need more please ask.

Reiss
LondiniumEspresso.com