Aussie Lever Lover - Ponte Vecchio Questions

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WyldGrind
Posts: 4
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by WyldGrind »

G'day from Down Under!

This would be my very first post on HB so I'm a little excited. I am also the excited and proud owner of a new Ponte Vecchio Export in red :)

I unwrapped her less than 24hrs ago and have probably made 10 shots in that time so not much chance of sleeping now. It was a big step up from my old breville pump machine and I can already tell I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. I have to experiment to find the right grind for all the SO beans I roast, re-learn to tamp and learn how to steam milk all over again!

I am totally hooked on lever machines!!! Already the espresso is tastier, more balanced - more nuanced than on the breville and that's with my poor technique!

Naturally I have questions - lots of them but I will try to keep it to an important few:

1) When I turn the PVE on and it comes up to temperature, steam starts escaping the saftey valve on the top of the boiler. It continues to do this while the thermostat is on and until I have finished bleeding the false pressure. Is this normal? If not then might have a faulty safety valve? are these adjustable? Could the pressure stat be set too high? Any advice on this would be most helpful!!!

2) I think its been well documented on here that the PVE and PVL groups produce smaller shots (per pull) than other lever groups (but are also more forgiving as a trade off). Because of this I have been using the Fellini move (one and a half pulls) to obtain 1 oz. Problem is I think the second pull cause the puck to fracture because the pour turns from slow and honey-like to fast and watery. The crema suffers markedly and sure enough when I examine the puck there is a massive fissure in it. Is there a technique or something(anything!) to prevent this channeling from occurring?

3) My old breville was a thermoblock so needless to say the steaming was pretty average. In comparison the PVE is a steaming monster! it also has a three hole tip compared to a single hole tip on the breville. I drink mainly espresso but do enjoy cap or two and my wife drinks exclusively milk-based drinks. I am currently 0 from 5 for steaming good micro foam! I realize I will have to re-learn this too so I was hoping anyone had any good ideas/techniques that might point me in the right direction?

Well, now that I've chewed your ears off, I better say thanks in advance for reading and taking the time to help a poor Aussie who is now lever-obsessed!!

Cheers!

WG

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rpavlis
Posts: 1799
Joined: 12 years ago

#2: Post by rpavlis »

For many lever machines I suspect the "multiple short pull" technique can prevent most problems from puck fracturing. The problem stems from the fact that when the handle is moved through its full travel to allow more water to go into the space below the cylinder, air is drawn through the puck. Because it is practically impervious from being wet, it cracks. If one refill the cylinder after only 15 to 20% of its travel, the vapour pressure from vaporising water will keep the pressure inside the group high enough so that cracks normally do not form. The vapour pressure of water in an espresso machine is nearly atmospheric, but when it vaporises on a larger scale it cools and the pressure above the puck falls below atmospheric. This is when the puck fractures.

You will need to make at least three short pulls to do this. I have used as many as six on the MCAL.

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#3: Post by peacecup »

Naturally I have questions - lots of them but I will try to keep it to an important few:

1) When I turn the PVE on and it comes up to temperature, steam starts escaping the saftey valve on the top of the boiler. It continues to do this while the thermostat is on and until I have finished bleeding the false pressure. Is this normal? If not then might have a faulty safety valve? are these adjustable? Could the pressure stat be set too high? Any advice on this would be most helpful!!!

It normally does not run all the time. Sounds like the pressure is too high. Turn it down with the pstat under the base. It should have a + and - on it. BE CAREFUL WITH THE PRESSURE THAT HIGH, and get it down before you use it regularly.

2) I think its been well documented on here that the PVE and PVL groups produce smaller shots (per pull) than other lever groups (but are also more forgiving as a trade off). Because of this I have been using the Fellini move (one and a half pulls) to obtain 1 oz. Problem is I think the second pull cause the puck to fracture because the pour turns from slow and honey-like to fast and watery. The crema suffers markedly and sure enough when I examine the puck there is a massive fissure in it. Is there a technique or something(anything!) to prevent this channeling from occurring?

It takes a little practice to get the multiple pull grind and dose right. I've pulled 1000's on non-fractured shots.

3) My old breville was a thermoblock so needless to say the steaming was pretty average. In comparison the PVE is a steaming monster! it also has a three hole tip compared to a single hole tip on the breville. I drink mainly espresso but do enjoy cap or two and my wife drinks exclusively milk-based drinks. I am currently 0 from 5 for steaming good micro foam! I realize I will have to re-learn this too so I was hoping anyone had any good ideas/techniques that might point me in the right direction?

Again, it takes a little practice. You probably have too much pressure right now, so it may get easier when you get that right. Not sure there are any easy tips here, but I think you'll be surprised how fast you get up to speed on this one.

Well, now that I've chewed your ears off, I better say thanks in advance for reading and taking the time to help a poor Aussie who is now lever-obsessed!!

Cheers!

WG
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#4: Post by peacecup »

I answered inside your quote above. Also, I found it easiest to get things in order by using the double basket and filling it quite full, near to the rim. Then adjust the grind so that you get a very slow flow (just faster than a drip) for the first pull. This will result in just a few ml in the cup. The second pull will flow just the right rate then, up to about 30 ml.

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

Cmtwgr
Posts: 134
Joined: 11 years ago

#5: Post by Cmtwgr »

Fellini is NOT one and a half pull
its a lot of small movements at the start of the downstroke

As rpavlis already mentioned , small pulls at the start is better
as he says ,when you rise the piston agin , the water can give of steam again , filling the cylinder to a pressure that is high enough to prevent the nedd for air to be sucked up through the puck

i believe that there will even will bee some air trapped ( the cylinder will never be filled completely

that air acts like a spring

so at the start of the down stroke there will be a mix of air and steam on top of the water inside the cylinder

due to the rising pressure on the downstroke , the steam will collapse into water/change from steam to water
then the air will start to be compressed
then water will be pressed into the coffee

if you let the lever only go up to short under level ,then push it down again
the air will expand and fill the cylinder , even if the pressure should drop to under atmospheric pressure , the hot water would give of enough steam to avoid a under-pressure/vacuum

I have the best reults by letting the lever rise fast by lifting my hand fast when i want the last and full stroke
this quick pressure rise will compress the puck and make the flow slow

IF i slowly let the lever rise , the flow will be faster

its the same as with the Pavoni , if you make a sloooow pressure rise , the flow will be fast
and if you quickly let the pressure rise things will slow down

on the Pavoni you can adjurt flow on the fly using this changing pressure


at what pressure is your machine set ??

mine is at 1,1 to 1,2

that gives god steaming , and not to hot

but let you taste buds decide , the manometer isnt that accurate from machine to machine

pacificmanitou
Posts: 1302
Joined: 12 years ago

#6: Post by pacificmanitou »

Ponte Vecchio is known for setting the pstat too high. If you can get a pressure gauge, and set it to 1.1 or so. When I pull, I start the second pull at 10 seconds in, which is usually about 8 grams fluid output. I have had good pours with various doses for different coffees. My current is 16.5 grams.

For steaming, I find the steam to actually be a little lacking compared to the commercial machines I've used. For small amounts of milk, I barely turn the tap, and slowly increase power, then shut the valve quickly. For larger quantities, I go straight to full power. I usually use a fairly standard technique to steam, 45° angle, barely insert the steam tip.

It does take practice.
LMWDP #366

WyldGrind (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 10 years ago

#7: Post by WyldGrind (original poster) »

Hi All,

Thanks for the fantastic replies! I do appreciate it. I was hoping it was the pstat setting, I am about to open her up and turn it down half a turn and see what I get! Will keep adjusting as necessary but figured slow and steady

The safety valve was only going off right at the start - until I bled the false pressure so I hope reducing the pressure will eliminate this :)

I did make a further 4 shots today - two espresso and two latte... the shots are getting better but slightly too hot so again I think this shows too much pressure. I had huge amounts of crema from an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe special prep roasted to the first signs of second crack. Very very tasty! This little machine punches way above its weight and even SWMBO is impressed which is no mean feat :)

Milk steaming has gotten slightly better - this three hole tip will take some getting used too.

Thanks again guys...will keep y'all up to date with how my progress goes. Now to tackle this pstat.

Cheers,

WG

SJM
Posts: 1819
Joined: 17 years ago

#8: Post by SJM »

When I first got my SAMA/Export I had a problem with the safety valve letting off constant steam. I had not been filling using the sight glass, and was overfilling the boiler. Once I realized that its capacity and the correct amount of water were not the same, the problem went away.

pacificmanitou
Posts: 1302
Joined: 12 years ago

#9: Post by pacificmanitou replying to SJM »

I consistently fill the boiler on my lusso past the sight glass, and have no problem doing so. I wonder if the horizontal boiler rather than vertical is a factor here.
LMWDP #366

WyldGrind (original poster)
Posts: 4
Joined: 10 years ago

#10: Post by WyldGrind (original poster) »

I have definitely been filling via the sight glass but I can see how overfilling would cause pressure build up like that.

I have just adjusted the pstat down one half turn (luckily they made room in there for a mater. Unfortunately I don't have a gauge but will probably purchase from OE in the new year. Til then a bit of experimenting!!!

Will keep you posted.

Cheers,

WG

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