Arm immobilizing pull down

by **IMAWriter** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:53 am

I've been really working hard at dialing in my SJ and my Cremina.
For whatever reason, even with a grind way more coarse than with my Anita, I'm getting stuck pull downs if I attempt to do what I've seen done on YouTube videos....that thing where you pull down maybe 6-8 inches, then raise up the lever, and do another short pull, raise, then do the full pull.
The lever becomes immobile, even with 60-70lbs of pressure. Any harder, and I'll bend the lever.
What gives?
I've zero'ed out the Mazzer, and I'm 13 notches to the coarse side of where the burrs touch.
It's not the burrs. Positive about that. The grind is very even, clumps broken up prior to dosing, and I'm using the SJ as intended, with the hopper on.
The only time I get a decent pull, is when I raise the lever slowly, lock the PF in as it nears the top, wait 6 seconds, and pull down slowly but with a good bit...maybe 35-40 #'s of pressure. Those shots average 28 seconds, counting the time the lever is fully raised, including the 6 second count.
Help appreciated!

by **caeffe** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:03 am

Robert-

You've described what sounds like the "Fellini" pull. Basically, a half pull (sometimes 2-3x) followed by a full pull. Do a search on Fellini here.

For me, on my europiccola, I've given up on the fellini. I find that i get an overextracted, hence bitter, pull.
I've stuck with one single continuous pull. I get better, sweeter results. So what if i don't get the quantity. I get quality. Also, I try not to "force". I've found that forcing it causes the shot to freeze as you described. Relax, let up on it, heck even stop. Magically, you'll be able to finish the pull. I think this is the difference with a fully manual lever. You can feel the pull.

Mind you, again, I don't have a Cremina, just a lowly 'picolla. But I think the two machines are so alike. This behaviour was described in another post somewhere here. Not sure what you search under.

by **peacecup** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:09 am

From your description of the symptoms you've got "manualleveritus". Either your machine is malfunctioning, or you're trying to stuff a two pound salami in a one-pound skin. If the former, you can send the machine to Peacecup's Cremina Repair, Karlstad Sweden. We'll get it back to you as soon as possible. Please pack it well so we can do some thorough testing.

If the later, Dr. Peacecup prescribes taking a deep breath before you begin your espresso experience. Perhaps a minute of meditation with a hand grinder. Espresso is not a competition sport, but a journey, not only of sight and sound but of mind. Put away the stop watch, and loosen the grind a notch baby, and try not to break the lever on that Swiss beauty. For God's sake Jim, I'm a simple county doctor, but I can tell you've got the grind too fine.

As you can tell by the above prose my Caravel has finally arrive, and I am back in lever heaven. Anyway, good luck getting things sorted out!

PC

by **IMAWriter** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:11 pm

caeffe wrote:Robert-

You've described what sounds like the "Fellini" pull. Basically, a half pull (sometimes 2-3x) followed by a full pull. Do a search on Fellini here.

For me, on my europiccola, I've given up on the fellini. I find that i get an overextracted, hence bitter, pull.
I've stuck with one single continuous pull. I get better, sweeter results. So what if i don't get the quantity. I get quality. Also, I try not to "force". I've found that forcing it causes the shot to freeze as you described. Relax, let up on it, heck even stop. Magically, you'll be able to finish the pull. I think this is the difference with a fully manual lever. You can feel the pull.

Mind you, again, I don't have a Cremina, just a lowly 'picolla. But I think the two machines are so alike. This behaviour was described in another post somewhere here. Not sure what you search under.

Cesar...the sweetest pull I had on a lever was from my former Europiccola using a vitamin bottle for a tamper.
Yours is a fine machine!
Thanks for the response

by **IMAWriter** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:16 pm

peacecup wrote:From your description of the symptoms you've got "manualleveritus". Either your machine is malfunctioning, or you're trying to stuff a two pound salami in a one-pound skin. If the former, you can send the machine to Peacecup's Cremina Repair, Karlstad Sweden. We'll get it back to you as soon as possible. Please pack it well so we can do some thorough testing.

If the later, Dr. Peacecup prescribes taking a deep breath before you begin your espresso experience. Perhaps a minute of meditation with a hand grinder. Espresso is not a competition sport, but a journey, not only of sight and sound but of mind. Put away the stop watch, and loosen the grind a notch baby, and try not to break the lever on that Swiss beauty. For God's sake Jim, I'm a simple county doctor, but I can tell you've got the grind too fine.

As you can tell by the above prose my Caravel has finally arrive, and I am back in lever heaven. Anyway, good luck getting things sorted out!

PC

Haha...excellent, Jack! Actually, my friends at Home Espresso Repair pronounced her fit and hardy.
I'll loosen up the grind a bit more. It's one of my new blends, and I'm betting I don't have a handle on it quite yet.
I don't use a stop watch, not worry about times. I just used times to explain my situation.
It's also VERY humid here, in the 80% range.
Thanks to both you and Cesar.

by **Cathi** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:41 pm

80 %? Ah yes, I remember life in the South. The humidity plays a part for sure. Backing off on the grind or the tamp and crying over spilt espresso is in order. :roll:

TCB - Baybee!

regards,

by **IMAWriter** on Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:59 pm

OK. I really loosened up the grind on the SJ.
Dosed evenly, finger dissolved visible clumps, leveled, light leveling tamp, then a 20 # or so tamp...just to see how far I could come back.
The resultant pour started pretty quickly, perfectly straight through my Newd PF, but blonded in 15 seconds. 2oz...way more than I like.
What is worse is that even after a minute wait, gently removing the PF (no sneeze, only a tiny whisper of air), the puck was soppy. I believe with all the flushing before the shot, and allowing for the boiler to recycle, it's not cool temperature water causing the soppy puck, as it does in an HX machine.
But with the grind loosened and a moderate tamp, I wouldn't have expected a soppy puck. Maybe my blend is one of those finicky blends. FWIW, it's 40% Brazilian Daterra peaberry, 25% Harrar, 25% Organic Sumatra, and 10% Panama Boquette. Post blended, rested 3.5 days.
Could my pressure have been reset too low?. Even after 3 shots, I see no "dark ring" as I would on Anita with a too hot extraction.
Last thing. My Europiccola basket would be packed to about 1/4" from the top of the basket after tamping. Would this apply to the Cremina/Elektra baskets as well?
I'm grinding 15grams, and packing about 14grams after sweeping the doser out.
Thanks for any help.

Edit...sorry, 1 FINAL thing. At what point (angle wise) should I fully lock in the PF as I'm raising the lever to open the water valve release?

by **peacecup** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:06 am

Beans. Grind. Dose. Tamp. And, in your case, pull. Five variables. You need to keep four of the the same for a series of shots to isolate the effect of the fifth. If you want to stay with your current blend/roast, try to stay around the same freshness level (say 1-2 weeks).

Find a dose and tamp that you like, and vary only the grind setting. Weigh the coffee if necessary to standardize the dose - I do it by volume of whole beans with my hand grinders. Increasing the dose will increase the pressure just like a finer grind. If you messin with both you bound for trouble.

I personally like to tamp to 10-20 lbs, and I don't usually use the very light tamp method. I also prefer a full basket (dose), close to, but not touching the dispersion screen. Others may see this as overdosing, but in my opinion this applies more to the 58-mm pump machines than to the smaller-group levers. In fact, I generally get poor results with lower doses.

My very limited experience with the Pavoni taught me that going for all the marbles (very hard pulls) was futile. While it might eek out a drop more crema from older beans, it just caused a lot of variation. I found a steady moderate pull to be more consistent.

And while I'm on the subject of crema, I believe Luigi Bezzera patented the first espresso machine around around 1903, some fifty years before 15-bar pumps were introduced. Just cause it don't come from a LM don't mean it ain't espresso.

PC

by **IMAWriter** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:21 pm

Jack...I have a few HX 58mm habits...the first tamp to "level", etc. I'll try a single 15# tamp
The loosened grind cause 10 second pours, all blond, through the Newd PF
I didn't have a squirt with Anita for the past 3 years. I re-cleaned the SJ, always making sure to properly reattach the upper burr to avoid cross threading, etc.
I think my problem my be twofold. One, grinding and thwacking ain't working. Too much ground going towards 3rd base, making it harder to get an even distribution. The other might be a fractured puck, due to not quite knowing when to lock up the PF to avoid air from disturbing the puck. Funny, I had no such problem with the Millennium Europiccola.

by **IMAWriter** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:52 pm

Problem solved...I believe. I think Jacks(?) or(Cesar's?) suggestion to ease up on the pull was a good one.
However, I believe my biggest problem was the Elektra vs Cremina basket. The great depth of the Elektra, and possibly great differential in hole pattern between the 2 was the biggie. FWIW, I find I must loosen the grind at least 6 "notches" coarser while using the Elektra basket, plus of course updosing a bit.
Truth is, I'm having NO problems with the OEM Cremina basket. I'm hoping, with practice, I'll do a bit better with the Elektra basket, but I am happy with 1.25 oz including crema-head shots.
I'm charging my camera, and will post pictures of the puck, post pull and the shot from the Cremina basket.
This next statement applies to both lever and HX shots...as I have discovered.
"DO NOT attempt to pull a shot when the boiler is active" :!:

Each time I attempted to do so, my resultant shots were horrid, and I ended up with soupy pucks, even after 2 minutes post pull. :oops:

I have to say, that my blend ain't no day in the park for consistency. it was roasted in my CO/UFO combo, as I was giving the Behmor the day off. I believe it may be just a bit dry.
Thanks to all for suggestions. Any more are always greatly appreciated.


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