Hi everyone,

These past two weeks have seen two benchmarks in my espresso education;

first of all, I'm finally getting consistently nice shots out of my rancilio silvia w/PID, which I bought back in February.
Secondly (and the reason I'm posting here), I bought a pre-millenium La Pavoni Europiccola off of Craigslist.
The guy who sold it to me apparently roasts coffee for a living and deals with many machines; he replaced all the washers and seals on this one (the old ones were in the box.. stiff and cracked).

I'm assuming the machine is in good mechanical order (he claims he pulled espressos off it after reconditioning it... as far as I can tell there's nothing horribly wrong with it).

The base is sort of an ugly poo brown and there's a touch of rust around the very edges (covered by a rubber foot).. eventually I plan to remove the body from the foot, strip the foot, and then repaint it a bold cherry red.

I gave it a quick try and the results were definitely not spectacular. I set the mode to "II" to enable both boiler coils and get the boiler heated faster.. once the safety valve started releasing steam I loaded the basket with 12g of ground beans and tamped it with the generic plastic tamp (I am planning to buy a nice metal tamp soon).

I proceeded to pull the lever up really slowly, wait for maybe 6-8 seconds, and then I started pushing down... to find no resistance and no water flow. I pulled up again, waited, pressed down.. this time, the last 15% of the throw gave sort of a rubbery squish and pushed out a quick tiny stream of espresso. Pulling up another time gave me a little resistance, and pushed out more espresso... a third pump pushed out more espresso along with some pittance of crema, finally.
The crema was poor and the flavour was muddy and sort of bitter.

My second attempt didn't fare much better.

The coffee was ground to work quite nicely when overfilling my rancilio PF (approx 17g).
I feel that there was insufficient resistance and so I assume I should be grinding finer for my manual than for the semi..
Am I looking to use the same grind as my semi-auto or should it be different as a rule?

1] Turn it back the switch to I when the steam valve opens up.

2] Start with a finer grind for sure. Choke out the machine and then start getting coarser. What grinder are you using?

Also, pull the handle all the way up w/o the PF in just to make sure you're actually getting water from the boiler. There are some simple explanations to your problems and some not so simple ones.

Thanks for the quick reply Mayhew!

* I forgot to mention that I turned the switch back to 'I' when the steam valve opened
* The grouphead pushes water out when I lift the handle without any PF locked in
* I tried grinding finer.. managed to clog the machine, then pulling it back another couple of notches, finally managed an "okay" espresso.

The espresso showed no crema at all (the same beans produce a beautiful crema on the semi-auto so I think the blend must have some robusta in it).. I think it took three pulls before I started seeing espresso at the very bottom of the lever throw... the next pull engaged about half way down (some serious resistance at this point), and the third pull was resisting the whole way down. I'd guess I ended up pulling about 1.5-2 oz (next time I'll weigh the espresso..). Flavour was boring but I've pulled worse on my semi-auto.

A few follow-up questions:
* Is there anything else you can think of that I should look into?
* Is there any hard/fast rule about how many lever pulls I "should" do before I've likely ruined my cup of espresso?
* I've read that the "standard" routine is to attach the PF, -slowly- push up the lever as not to disturb the puck, wait 10 sec, pull lever half way down, push lever back up, wait 2-3 secs, and then pull. How many times should I pull after that? what kind of volume am I aiming for? is 12g of coffee too much? (it's pretty much a huge heap before I tap the basket and tamp it.. I can barely get the PF into the grouphead and twist so I'm pretty sure it's flush before it's even pre-infused)

thanks

When were those beans roasted and how have they been stored? I can't get good crema out of beans more than five days old or so. Lever machines are finicky.

Sounds like your machine works. Probably a matter of technique or grind at this point.

Could be the seals but I doubt it.

I'd say one pull. People will argue back and forth on this but that's my answer.

An ounce and a bit of change. I say just pull down once. 12g sounds a bit too much if you can barely lock the PF in. That's probably killing your puck.

Hi, a couple of questions ;What grinder are you using? your profile shows a Breville, this may not be up to the task with the Pavoni, you need a good burr grinder to get good results with the Pavoni lever

Are you using the double basket? I would have thought 12g should easily fit and lock in with the double basket.I always used the double basket, and with 1 pump of the lever got around 1.5oz shots.My routine was insert portafilter, slowly lift lever, wait around 7-8 sec's or until first drops appear in cup, then slowly pull lever down once

Thank you, I have updated my profile
I am using a Baratza Vario now

Beans are 3-4 days old from a local roaster
I am using the double basket -- it's the only basket that came with the machine.

How much resistance are you getting in the pull, and does it happen pretty much at the top of the lever travel or about halfway?

Hi Craig,

A couple of comments:

The La Pavoni is very touchy about grind and tamp. Very touchy. The slightest little change (such as a different bean or being even a hair off on the grind) can send the shots straight into the sink. However, when you get it right, the shots are quite good.

It sounds like you have a machine that is similar to mine. I'll post a picture below for comparison. What I normally do is fill up the boiler with water until it's just filled up the view tube and/or until it's about 2 inches from the top. I usually leave the top off and turn it onto II. When the water starts to boil, then I turn it back to I. If you have the top screwed on, then turn it to II and then when you start seeing steam coming out of the bypass valve, then flip it back down to I. Sometimes I just turn it off and on to keep the steam coming out, but not coming out too violently. I also usually pull a blank shot through the portafilter to pre-heat everything and also to check the water temp using an instant read thermometer (the kind you use to check the temp on your milk when you are learning to steam/froth milk).

As mentioned above, a good method is to grind too fine and choke the machine out and then start going more coarse. The other method is to start too coarse and then gradually make the grind finer. The tamp is used more to fine tune in my experience, once you start to get close with the grind. If the grind is off, then usually as soon as you lift the handle, water will come pouring out of the portafilter (without even pushing the lever down).

The method I use is typically this: grind, tamp, insert the portafilter. Then slowly lift up the handle. You'll see the water level dip in the tube on the side. I usually count to about 5 or so for it to fill (you should be able to feel it a bit through the handle as well). Sometimes I wait another 5 seconds or so in order to get a bit of pre-infusion going. Then push down and keep a steady pressure. The shot should take about 18 to 25 seconds or so if everything is right. You shouldn't need tremendous pressure on the lever - just a nice even firm pressure. If you see the machine bending in half or you are putting all your weight on it, your grind is off. Keep in mind that the leverage on the handle is something like 10 to 1 or something, so if you are applying 20 lbs of force, you are producing 200 lbs at the piston. I may be off on the exact ratio, but it's something to that effect.

When I use new beans (or even getting the machine rolling), it's not uncommon to pull 4 or 5 wasted shots while dialing everything in. I usually write down the grind specs on each bag of coffee, once I get them sorted out. As mentioned, fresh beans make a world of difference, as does a good quality Espresso blend.

When you have the grind correct and the tamping pressure about right, the finished puck of coffee should knock out in a single solid unit from the portafilter basket. Also, it's important to clean the group head gasket between each shot in my experience. Also, many people replace the gaskets and use a round O-ring, as opposed to the square O-ring you are supposed to use. Having the square one makes a big difference on the sealing.

Good luck! The La Pavoni definitely takes some fiddling with in order to get it to work well. If you are coming from a high end semi-auto machine with a PID, you have entered the other end of the scale as far as pulling your shots The La Pavoni is sensitive to every little minute change. For example, I use the Kyocera ceramic hand burr grinder and I have the adjustment knock notched in 16 increments. Just 1 click off on the grinder and the shot is usually toast.

Ray

Thanks for the replies!

I'm going to try again when I get home from work, but I would like to work through my understanding of the EPC

As I understand it, the fundamental mechanical forces are as follows:
1. boiler creates steam in the boiler chamber
2. steam exerts pressure of surface of boiling water
3. an inlet leads from the bottom of the boiler to the top of the grouphead chamber
4. the inlet at the top of grouphead chamber is obstructed by the piston
5. upon fully lifting the lever, the piston moves above the water inlet, allowing the steam pressure to push the water into the grouphead chamber
6. pulling down on the lever lowers the piston, cutting off the inlet, and leaving us with a GH chamber full of water and nowhere for it to go but through the portafilter
7. pulling down on the lever now forces water through the grounds.


A few questions:

A. Is my understand correct? What did i get wrong?
B. How far down the lever throw is the water inlet cut off?
C. Why doesn't pulling down on the lever push water back into the boiler?


Now, as for resistance.. given that many people seem to want to only pull a single lever throw, I assume that means that the ENTIRE lever pulling motion should present me with consistent, noticeable resistance.
So far, my first (second, and third) pulls don't seem to offer me the kind of resistance I expect.

Does this mean the GH chamber isn't filling completely with water? if so, how do I address that?


Thanks for all the help

Now, as for resistance.. given that many people seem to want to only pull a single lever throw, I assume that means that the ENTIRE lever pulling motion should present me with consistent, noticeable resistance.
So far, my first (second, and third) pulls don't seem to offer me the kind of resistance I expect.




The more you dose, the longer the pre-infusion. I updose big time, 16-18 gram depending on the coffee (home roasted). My pre-infusion is 10-12 seconds.. I then pull down till 1/3 to 1/2 a stroke, then back up (brings more water in). Stay there for 2 seconds (Fellini). Pull down a second time. If I encounter resistance within a 1/4 stroke, then I keep going. If not, then I go back up and let more water in. By the third stroke down, there should be water resistance from the get go (assuming grind is fine enough). I like a short shot, so this technique will give 3/4 or 1 oz of espresso nectar.

-phillip