Hi, I have a few questions about the 2011 Cremina:

1) I usually leave my espresso machine on...at most...for 5 hours a day. I only pull about 2 shots in that time period span, but I like to leave it on for when I am ready to do so. How would the 2011 Cremina do as far as temp. stability when left on for that period of time? Would it become to hot and burn my espresso? This maybe a deal breaker otherwise.

2) How is the group head heated? Is it attached to the boiler?

3) I have watched videos on the shots pulled with it. Is it expected/the normal to pull the lever more than once during the same shot(excluding the preinfusion)?

4) I only make milk drinks maybe 1 out of every 5 drinks I make. I'm not to concerned with steaming. But curious, how much more powerful is the steamer compared to the Silvia?

5) How would the machine do for the hot water in americanos? I hate the idea of using microwaved water for Americanos.

6) I make doubles shots using 18grams of coffee. What can I expect to use at most for a double on this machine?

7) I always enjoy the aesthetics of an espresso as well as the taste. In the videos I have watched, I noticed none of the shots that I have seen have a molted look or tiger stripes in the crema. Instead, sometimes the crema even looks pale. Why is this?

8) Is this machine is capable of pulling shots with the same body fullness of a Strega?

Just to note, I'm not concerned/asking about the skill required of this lever machine or lever machines in general. I am only concerned with the personal traits of this machine itself.

Hi Coffeegeek73

1) I usually leave my espresso machine on...at most...for 5 hours a day. I only pull about 2 shots in that time period span, but I like to leave it on for when I am ready to do so. How would the 2011 Cremina do as far as temp. stability when left on for that period of time? Would it become to hot and burn my espresso? This maybe a deal breaker otherwise.

Cremina takes only 10 minutes to come up to operating temp....less with half a boiler of water. It's not a machine to be left on for lengthy periods IMO

2) How is the group head heated? Is it attached to the boiler?

Yes it is attached to the boiler

3) I have watched videos on the shots pulled with it. Is it expected/the normal to pull the lever more than once during the same shot(excluding the preinfusion)?

Only once

4) I only make milk drinks maybe 1 out of every 5 drinks I make. I'm not to concerned with steaming. But curious, how much more powerful is the steamer compared to the Silvia?

Can't comment...sorry

5) How would the machine do for the hot water in americanos? I hate the idea of using microwaved water for Americanos.

Cremina doesn't have a hot water tap...only a steamer. I use a kettle. If you use the lever to extract boiler water for the Americano, you will overheat the bell for the actual shot.

6) I make doubles shots using 18grams of coffee. What can I expect to use at most for a double on this machine?

If you get an Elektra basket from OE, you can use 17.3 gm max.

7) I always enjoy the aesthetics of an espresso as well as the taste. In the videos I have watched, I noticed none of the shots that I have seen have a molted look or tiger stripes in the crema. Instead, sometimes the crema even looks pale. Why is this?

Probably due to temp. of extraction. There are excellent threads on HB started by Tekomino exploring Cremina's temp. stability. With a temp. strip on Cremina's bell you will eliminate the guesswork regarding temp. of extraction.

Is this machine is capable of pulling shots with the same body fullness of a Strega?

Sorry...can't comment on Strega. More body with Cremina than QM Achille though IMO

Just to note, I'm not concerned/asking about the skill required of this lever machine or lever machines in general. I am only concerned with the personal traits of this machine itself. There is a bit of a learning curve with a Cremina.

Once mastered and armed with freshly roasted coffee of a great variety, I reckon that you can make wonderful espresso....In my world, I can make equal (or better) espresso with my Cremina than with a LM Linea and a QM Achille....for your usage at 2 or so cups a day, Cremina would IMO be a fabulous choice

Cheers,
Paolo

I'm not sure whether Paolo is talking about the 67 Cremina or the 2011...specifically to leaving it on for extended periods and walking up to pull a proper temp shot?

I've found mine to be excellent in temp management specifically after it has been on for some period of time, without overheating. It has a very tight deadband and cycles about .85 to .95 bar giving a general group temp around 180F depending how the ambient temp is in the house. It's very easy to bring it up or down slightly, either installing a cool PF, or to heat up...a couple half pumps. I have been using a tc on the bell of the group, but that degree of accuracy is not necessary and I am installing just a standard temp strip to it.

The Cremina is known for the fantastic "crema" hence the name...I think some of the pics you have seen are not indicative of an expertly pulled shot. I still remember one of the first shots I pulled on mine and marveled at the gelatinous like quality of the shot.

Definitely read Tekomino's test's for temp management with the 2011 Cremina.

While I don't have the 2011, I have two '67s. With that said, I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Since you are not steaming you can adjust the boiler pressure accordingly so as to not overheat the grouphead. The new Cremina comes with a Teflon gasket that supposedly helps control the heat transfer to the grouphead. Dennis (tekomino) and John Borella (jvborella) have both done testing that shows this to be true.

2. Two ways - attached to the boiler and by flushing or cycling water from the boiler through the grouphead. Cycling is mini pumps that do not consumer water but instead cycle the water sitting on top of the piston with boiler water.

3. With a fully infused puck (drops showing), a full pull will give you about 1.4 - 1.5 ounces of espresso. If you want more, a Fellini move (slight pull before bringing back up to the top for a full pull) will get you more volume.

4. I've never used a Silvia, but with the '76, under 20 seconds for 5 ounces of milk.

5. When I make them I heat water with the steam wand or grab hot water from my water dispenser.

6. I use an Elektra basket which fits in the stock portafilter and Richard Penney bottomless and never dose low like the 17.3 grams mentioned. I usually dose between 18 and 19.5 grams as weighed on my calibrated scale. On the stock baskets I can get about 17 grams.

7. The videos you've watched are by people who haven't pulled good shots. See the video I linked you to. I get beautiful tiger striping and motling in my shots at least 98% of the time.

8. Never used a Strega but have owned a few La Pavoni levers, two E61s and a La Cimbali Junior. The Cremina is my favorite by a considerable margin.

Hope this helps.

danetrainer wrote:I'm not sure whether Paolo is talking about the 67 Cremina or the 2011...specifically to leaving it on for extended periods and walking up to pull a proper temp shot?

I have one of each. My 1987 model has a teflon gasket fitted. They both behave in a very similar fashion.

Maybe it's just me but if you turn the machine on....measure and grind your coffee....scratch your bum...load and tamp your basket...look out a window and you are there (depending on how long the scratch went for....don't overdo things....) and Cremina is up to temperature. With such a short warmup I can't see why anyone would leave the machine on for an extended length of time. Each to his/her own though.


A read of Tekomino's thread (as mentioned before here) is highly recommended.

I tried a '67 Cremina briefly and it pulled tiger striped shots right off. Measured the same amount in the basket of a pre-Millennium La Pavoni Europiccola and pulled a shot at the same temperature. Tiger stripes again. I believe that's a matter of dose and grind and good coffee. If you want a thick, rich shot, use a large dose and a single pull in that size group. A Millennium model La Pavoni Europiccola can be left on for hours and if you measure the group temperature and it's a touch too hot, lock in a cooled portafilter to reliably pull shots at a controlled temperature. The Cremina is far better build quality (even better in later models) and cycles within a tight deadband. I can't see why you wouldn't pull shots at the right temperature. It's a matter of dialing in the pressurestat setting. If you want to be very sure of temperature you can easily attach a thermometer to the outside of the group. A properly adjusted Cremina probably doesn't need that. Tekomino managed it with a temperature strip.

Since you mention a Strega, that has a much larger commercial group. Commercial levers have more stable temperature than home machines because of the larger mass of their groups and their larger boiler capacity, since they're built to be left on all day. But that seems like a lot of machine for your usage pattern.