What to do about newbie noise - Page 5

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.
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malachi
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#41: Post by malachi »

It's okay to be ignorant; it's not okay to be stupid.
What's in the cup is what matters.

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sweaner
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#42: Post by sweaner »

It's okay to be ignorant; it's not okay to be stupid.
I disagree with this, but you are close. It is perfectly OK to be either ignorant, stupid, or both....as long as you recognize it. Don't be stupid but think you know everything.
Scott
LMWDP #248

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shadowfax
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#43: Post by shadowfax replying to sweaner »

In all fairness, the original article read, "It's OK to be ignorant; It's not OK to play stupid" (emphasis mine). It's cutting right to the presumption that some people approach online fora/newsgroups with, which is that the newsgroup is there so that they can answer people's pedestrian questions on-demand, without any effort put forth on the newbie's part. It's not about being stupid. Very few people are stupid in the sense of a 'disability.' Most people that one might give the moniker 'stupid' to are simply lazy, ignorant, and presumptuous. The newbie that Dan excerpted at the beginning of this thread is perhaps the most flagrant, almost exaggerated example of this insulting behavior. It's not a lack of intellect, it's feigning a lack of intellect (most often, this is fleshed out as a lack of knowledge and a perceived inability to acquire it) in order to get someone else to spoon feed you what you want. You could call it "manipulative stupidity."

Again, not all "newbies" are like this. Everyone starts out as a newbie, and we all look rather silly/ridiculous at some point on our journey. As such, I think we can all agree that newbies deserve some leeway. I think that at HB, newbies are quite welcome, particularly those that don't make their debut in the community with their foot in their mouth and their head "where the sun don't shine."
Nicholas Lundgaard

jpreiser
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#44: Post by jpreiser »

I've always liked the following:
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Stupidity is failing to pursue knowledge and/or ignoring the knowledge one has acquired.

Michal
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#45: Post by Michal »

I thought it was the other way around :?:

DigMe
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#46: Post by DigMe »

Maybe for the first 24 hours every time a new member clicks the post link it should automatically send them to CG. :lol:

snaab
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#47: Post by snaab »

a confession:

speaking as what i can only classify as a newbie, i have to say that while personally, i have little tolerance for laziness or willful ignorance, i think one of the great things about HB is exactly your willingness to put up with the lazy and ignorant. I have been an espresso lover for the better part of 20 years, since first working as a barista at Espresso Royale Caffe in Madison, Wisconsin but my love for the drink and experience behind the bar did not make me any less likely to ask dumb questions or to look for the easy way out (i.e. ask first, research second). it is only b/c of HB members' generally forgiving attitude and patience that i have become a better espresso obsessive and more considerate lurker/poster/questioner.

my point? I guess I agree with those HBers who would leave things as they are. if folks are posting questions that are just too stupid, ignore them. they will either go away or, if they are truly interested, they'll dig around more and eventually wise up....as i hope i have begun to.

noizy
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#48: Post by noizy »

Reading on espresso can be overwhelming at first. I can understand how anyone would love to get quick payback on a large investment.
I suspect that those who can't be bothered to learn about what they buy, whether it'd be a digital camera, a musical instrument or an espresso machine eventually give up on their pursuit after some disappointing results... or perhaps blissfully enjoy their sub par achievements.
This interaction reminds me of what happened to me at work. Some spoiled kid still living at home asked me for a recommendation on a two group machine with a direct water connection. As I had no idea, I told him I'd get back to him. A week or so later I asked him if he found something; he said he did get something used from a restaurant that had closed (off craigslist or something). So naturally I asked him how well it was working for him, and he replied "oh burned myself on it, so I'm not using it anymore... my mother used it once to make herself frothed milk. It's just for show really"... So, pffff... frankly, these are the kind of people you just call up a few months later and buy their equipment off them at a discount once the purchase buzz has subsided.
As for useless topics, don't they fall off on page 15+ within a few weeks, or take a life on their own with fascinating tangents?

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TUS172
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#49: Post by TUS172 »

So Dan... In your original post you chose a rather extreme "Newbie Post". This is not the norm of what newbie posts are here at HB. Why did you pick this particular post to kick off this thread? Just curious...
I know there are times when I read a newbie post that could be answered if only the person took a couple of minutes to do their own DD and I have simply ignored the post.
At other times when I have the patience and little time I will direct the new poster to the appropriate threads.
At other times I have the patience and plenty of time so then I might go into an explanation and also direct the newbie.
What is the harm in that to anyone? I might 'blow off' a newbie post when another senior member has the time and does answer the newbie adequately and courteously. Then HB has generated a grateful newbie and has also given the senior member the opportunity to show that they still care. The exclusivity issue is one that should be looked at from various points of view and very carefully at that.
I fully agree with Richard on this topic... Let them post as they always have and trust that the senior members of this forum have the patience, expertise and maturity to appropriately service them.
The outrageous one that you began this thread with seems to towards one end of the extreme. But I did get a good laugh out of it. :lol:
Bob C.
(No longer a lever purist!)
LMWDP #012

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HB (original poster)
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#50: Post by HB (original poster) »

TUS172 wrote:Why did you pick this particular post to kick off this thread? Just curious... <snip> <snip> But I did get a good laugh out of it.
Asked and answered. :wink:

Seriously, his attitude prompted me to think about the impact of increased "newbie noise" over the last few months, what is the thinking (or lack thereof) for first time caffeine-infused cross-posting maniacs, and if site policy should be tweaked to address these issues. At this point I agree that no action is necessary, but it may be in the future, not only to preserve the site's high data/noise ratio, but to avoid putting an undue burden on senior members/moderators.
Dan Kehn