So what is a 'true' cappuccino? A single shot in a 5oz. cup or a double shot in the same or larger cup? From looking at so much info researching my first espresso machine I have come across different variables in what makes a cappuccino, well, a cappuccino. Just curious is all......

Ron(ordering the Anita on monday...)

This (old) news article might help-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2...italy.mainsection1

Italians are very proud of their traditional coffee, and even have a National Institute for Italian Espresso. Use the following recipe to make your own perfect cup.

Ingredients

125ml milk, no warmer than 3-5C, containing a minimum of 3.2% protein and 3.5% fat

25ml shot of hot espresso coffee

Directions

Add coffee to a 150-160ml capacity ceramic cup

Froth milk with steam to a temperature of 55C, and add to cup

Add sugar and stir gently

Henry

wow, that means they use only whole milk. I've been in the habit of 2% milk. I actually recently bought a half gallon of whole milk to try it out again after years of 2% milk I forgot the difference. It's seems to me that there is very little difference.

That translates to ~1 oz coffee and ~4 oz milk. After steaming, the traditional cappuccino cup in Italy is ~ 6 oz liquid and foam where the foam is ~ 2 oz, or in volume takes about a 1/3 of the drink. I have seen it prepared at times with 1.5-2 oz coffee in Rome.

At the USBC judges training workshop, I've heard it referred to as a drink of thirds. Third coffee, third milk, third foam, though I'm yet to see a competitor who served a double shot cappa.

As a side note, for a stronger coffee flavor, the Italians serve a drink named Cappuccio which is a ~4 oz Cappuccino. (less milk).

It's name comes from its strength - the Italian drink likely stemming from the Viennese kaputziner, a drink whose ratio of coffee and milk was such that its brown colour was that of the capuchin monk's robes.

The third thing is the result of bad grammar (I reckon*), and whilst I've only had a few dozen capps in Italy, all have been small (5-6oz) and all have had a single shot no bigger than 30ml.

Speaking to the guys at the INEI they claimed that the foaming comes from an old habit (over 100 years old) of boiling milk til it foamed and then pouring strong coffee into it. (chocolate was then used to hide the ugly hole). How much of this is true I don't know but any definition of a cappuccino that is specific about foam is likely a much more modern one.




* I own a lot of books on coffee, and all descriptions of cappuccino from about 1960 to 2000 with very few exceptions describe capps as:

A cappuccino is a single shot of espresso, mixed with an equal amount of foam and milk.

Which could mean 1:1:1, or it could mean 1:2:2 (about where its at in reality), or even 1:3:3 but I don't think that would taste good.

Abe Carmeli wrote:That translates to 1 oz coffee and 4 oz milk. After steaming, the traditional cappuccino cup in Italy is ~ 6 oz liquid and foam where the foam is ~ 2 oz, or in volume takes about a 1/3 of the drink. I have seen it prepared at times with 1.5-2 oz coffee in Rome.

At the USBC judges training workshop, I've heard it referred to as a drink of thirds. Third coffee, third milk, third foam, though I'm yet to see a competitor who served a double shot cappa.

As a side note, for a stronger coffee flavor, the Italians serve a drink named Cappuccio which is a ~4 oz Cappuccino. (less milk).

One part espresso (25ml) to five parts milk (125ml), sure sounds like a latte with lots of foam. Maybe that's the "correct" distinction: lattes have the same amount of milk but less foam than cappuccinos.

I guess I'll have to start calling my "double espresso plus 3-4oz microfoamed milk" a cappuccio doppio. Nobody will know what the heck I'm talking about, but sometimes that's the price you pay for correct terminology.

RapidCoffee wrote:I guess I'll have to start calling my "double espresso plus 3-4oz microfoamed milk" a capuccio doppio. Nobody will know what the heck I'm talking about, but sometimes that's the price you pay for correct terminology.

Hey John, don't discount us all. On a good day I think I'll be able to break that code. . Well, maybe.

King Seven wrote: or even 1:3:3 but I don't think that would taste good.

Still suffering from the plague (some have called it 'flu', but that really doesn't sum up how I'm feeling to well...) I pulled a coupla lackluster and low volume shots on the lever this morning, because my GF hadn't had a decent coffee in over a week (you know I'm sick, I'm not interested in coffee...). I had already poured the milk into the pitcher, and already put sugar in it, so I just poured what art I could into what little coffee I got. 1:3:2 (espresso:milk:foam) was about what it ended up, and it tasted a bit like a caramel. Mostly milk with sugar peeking out, and a bit of a chocolatey coffee-like aftertaste. I'd have sinked 'em both if I had had the energy to start again. Either she is a total charlatan, or she's being very kind to me, because she said it was, "Very good!"
I though it kinda sucked.

So everyone...

rferoni wrote:So what is a 'true' cappuccino? A single shot in a 5oz. cup or a double shot in the same or larger cup? From looking at so much info researching my first espresso machine I have come across different variables in what makes a cappuccino, well, a cappuccino. Just curious is all......

So there is no consensus! And I am happy with it . In most cafés you will get a 1:2:2, I guess, but I like 1:1:1 more. At home I do whatever I (and my GF) feel like, and that's okay, isn't it?
It doesn't bother me what the official name would be for the drink I make, as long as it tastes good. Sometimes I make myself a Spanish-style "Cortado", which translates to a 2:1:1. It lies inbetween a macchiato and a strong cappuccino, then. In the end there is an infinite choice of proportions between espresso and milk...

Spironski wrote:So there is no consensus! And I am happy with it . In most cafés you will get a 1:2:2, I guess, but I like 1:1:1 more. At home I do whatever I (and my GF) feel like, and that's okay, isn't it?
It doesn't bother me what the official name would be for the drink I make, as long as it tastes good. Sometimes I make myself a Spanish-style "Cortado", which translates to a 2:1:1. It lies inbetween a macchiato and a strong cappuccino, then. In the end there is an infinite choice of proportions between espresso and milk...

True, but it seems odd that there's no consensus on the makeup of one of the most popular espresso drinks. Beverage characteristics change in fundamental ways as the ratio of coffee to milk goes from 1:2 to 1:5, and it seems odd to call all of those drinks a cappuccino. Perhaps we need a "milk ratio" chart, kinda like Andy's brew ratio chart to define ristretto, normale, and lungo pours. Y'know, something along these lines:

* less than 1:2 - macchiato
* 1:2 to 1:4 - cappuccio
* 1:4 to 1:6 - cappuccino
* greater than 1:6 - latte

This is a very rough first cut, please feel free to comment on the ratios and categories. If it's important to distinguish between foamed milk and steamed milk, that could be worked in.

EDIT:
"X:Y" means X parts espresso to Y parts milk, by mass (weight), not volume.

For the sake of clear communication, it's probably best to have some sort of "chart", understood.
However, but who am I?, I don't agree entirely with yours. My chart would be more like:

Macchiato : up until 3:1
Cortado : 3:1 to 1:1
Cappucio : 1:1 to 1:2
cappuccino : 1:2 to 1:4
Latte : above 1:4

This list seems to be "heavier" then yours, Rapid. And to be clear: cappuccino to me means: 1 part espresso - 2 to 4 parts milk. When there is only 1/5 espresso involved, to me it is barely a cappuccino. That's my 2 cents...

EDIT:
this chart is by volume!

From reading this thread and other many thread here on HB I have determined it just comes down to taste! . That seems to be the best 'out' of any answer here on HB...

FWIW, I was asking because I will be ordering my first machine tommorrow(the Anita)and will need all the basic start-up stuff----including cups. I was wondering which cups I should get. I have settled on the 5-5.5 oz. style Moka Brown Amalfi style cups. They seem to be the standard and not too expensive. Probably will also get the matching sorrento style espresso cups.

Another reason I was curious was that it seemed a standard cappa was a single shot. From reading these forums it seems nobody(and even many say not to)pulls single shots. So my thinking was if everyone is pulling doubles(which seems to be the norm) what do ya do with the other shot. I guess you could just keep the ratio the same and make a bigger cappa, or just make two?

ron

Hmm, Cappucio...I've never heard of that but that's what I also enjoy more often than not.

brad

Okay, re-reading this thread, I see I am using different ratio-translations. When I say:1:2, I mean 1 part espresso, 2 parts milk, and John means: 1 out of 2, right?

EDIT:
*removed*

Spironski wrote:Okay, re-reading this thread, I see I am using different ratio-translations. When I say:1:2, I mean 1 part espresso, 2 parts milk, and John means: 1 out of 2, right?

Sorry, no. By "X:Y" I mean X parts espresso to Y parts milk, as measured by mass (weight) rather than volume. I've edited my post above for clarity. So the "drink of thirds" (maybe a cappuccio?) would have a ratio of 1:2.

Disclaimer: I never even heard of a cappuccio until Abe mentioned it in this thread. But it fits my preferred espresso beverage better than the 1:5 description of a cappuccino from the INEI.

RapidCoffee wrote:* Spelling question: cappuccio?

Probably, perhaps possibly yes. I think. I didn't ask those baristas in Rome how they spell it, but it should be spelled like cappuccino without the 'n'. I edited my post to reflect that astute observation.

In any event, which cup size would be good ones to start with? I'm thinking maybe a couple 5 oz. but also a couple 6.5 -7 oz.

Maybe I'll just use my ceramic coffee mugs to start out with and determine from there what 'ratio' I like best...

ron