I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm not a Newbie either. These opinions are not intended to challenge the views of those who know a lot more about espresso than I do, but only to share some global observations from a frequent reader of this blog.

First, it seems that there are several different types of contributors to the forums: professionals; those who really, really like straight espresso; and those who like modest milk drinks (macchiatos and cappuccinos). These further divide into those for whom espresso making is a hobby, perhaps a passion, and those who simply want to make good espresso drinks (of whatever kind they prefer) at home. Another dimension of separation is between those who mostly like to tinker with machines, those who want to educate themselves by visiting and observing, and those who are passionate about beautiful (effective and often expensive) equipment. It would be helpful if those who post would clarify where they stand on these matters. I think this would lead to more focussd responses.

I classify myself as a tinkerer who wants to make good macchiatos and cappuccinos at home. For me this is a project, rather than a hobby. I own a Silvia and a Quickmill HX machine, both with PIDs I installed. Right now I'm tinkering with the Silvia and the much-disparaged Rocky grinder to get the best result I can. I am tasting the straight espresso produced and occasionally it tastes so good that I understand the potential addiction. But I don't want to succumb to it! If I did, I think espresso would become a time-consuming hobby and I don't want that. Still, tinkering with the machine, coffees, grinds, pressure, temperature, tamping, etc. makes this a fun project. When I'm satisfied I'll sell or give away the Silvia (and perhaps the Rocky) and move on to the HO machine whose larger boiler and E61 brew head should need a lot less tinkering. And I'll probably take up roasting because I think the roasted beans I buy would not be used up in the 2-3 week period recommended. (And it's another fun project, but it will die if it proves as time-consuming as some claim.)

If you intend to serve espresso to guests, I think you'd be better off with a double boiler machine. But they're expensive. So we just serve good drip coffee when we have guests. If we wanted to impress them, we can use an inexpensive siphon machine.

One mild criticism I have is that although it seems in the US almost everyone prefers some kind of milk drink to straight espresso (and I observe this even at the best espresso shops), the professionals and connoisseurs of straight espresso often reply to Newbies seeking advice that they have to spend years learning about espresso, or get training from a top barista, or buy expensive machines and grinders. Customers line up at Starbucks to buy really bad espresso concealed with milk and flavorings. It is generally acknowledged that even a small cappuccino can taste quite good with not-great espresso (from the connoisseur's viewpoint). So why discourage the Newbie who wants to make good cappuccinos at home by presenting success as a long road with major time and financial commitment?

Talking to baristas in two of the best shops in San Francisco, I was told that they had two (or more) blends available, and that such-and-such blend was great for milk drinks, but another one was best for straight espressos. The very high dose used (20-22 g) suggests that they thought that much espresso was needed to penetrate the milk in these drinks. So perhaps part of the appeal of these big milk drinks is the jolt of caffeine concealed in a sweet concoction (sort of like a mixed drink with a lot of Vodka or high proof rum).

Semi-related...I find the name home-barista.com name kind of misleading. My guess is that if you could really survey all "Home Baristas", 99% of them are happily making big milky drinks on starbucks/saeco machines or equivalent, possibly with pre-ground coffee or pods, maybe flavor syrups etc. Nothing wrong with that....although I think the home-barista name potentially advertises this as a site where people could come to find basic information such as, whats the best espresso machine for under $100, etc.

In contrast, many here have multiple prosumer-grade machines & grinders, roast their own coffee, perhaps are even interested in cupping, temp/pressure profiling etc. Fair to say most here have skills far exceeding 99% of "professional" baristas..again just playing the numbers, 99% of those "professional" baristas are also happily making big milky drinks, serving snacks, making smoothies, as thats what 99% of retail customers are ordering.

The forum dynamics here are also far more "professional" than most other "hobby" sites I visit. As a result I come here for "Coffee Education" rather than "Community". Nothing wrong with that....although it does encourage "lurking".

Perhaps Home-Espresso-Connoisseur.com would be more accurate?

No matter really. Like the rest of the internet, it's a valuable source of information, but no substitute for real life.

The subtitle is either "Your guide to exceptional coffee" or "Your guide to exceptional espresso" When I first visited h-b.com I saw that and immediately realized sub-$100 espresso machines wouldn't be supported here. And that was quickly confirmed when I started reading the FAQs and buyers guides.

Sure, everyone starts somewhere but I see little need for a site that would have a subtitle of "Your guide to poor or mediocre espresso".

I think most people who post here and probably most who read the forums are interested in the site's motto "a guide to exceptional espresso" and not just "a guide to pretty good espresso." They want to get as close as possible to the very best espresso attainable at home. (I see the_trystero made this point, too, while I was typing up this post).

There are websites out there directed at getting passable espresso at home and then above that at getting good espresso at home, but this one is populated for the most part by people who want to push the envelope. There are, of course, a number of exceptions.

Sometimes people here strive for their ideal through expensive equipment, often through technique, etc.

A large percentage of the posts that people come here to read are by people who have posted literally thousands of times. Almost all those people have posted somewhere in those thousands of posts that their suggestions aren't necessary if your goal is just to get pretty good espresso, say slightly better than the average cafe. It would get pretty boring if they had to put that disclaimer in all 1,000 + posts.

It is not at all hard to find websites that have a more moderate goal and I like some of those websites quite a lot, but they are watered down relative to this one so this is where I learn the most and this is my favorite.

sbrussell wrote:So why discourage the Newbie who wants to make good cappuccinos at home by presenting success as a long road with major time and financial commitment?

As others have noted, the site motto is "Your guide to exceptional espresso". If your goal is limited to "good cappuccinos", the how-tos and basic buying advice repeated every week to new visitors are more than you need. But that's not HB's target demographic.

I don't knowingly discourage Newbies. However, I don't hesitate to point out the limitations of the equipment they might unknowingly choose. The sad irony is that the higher-end equipment is far, far more newbie friendly than the entry level stuff most beginners choose. That said, there are good entry level choices, if you're willing to listen to experienced members' advice (e.g., the Gaggia New Baby and Baratza Preciso for around $600). These combos will meet the needs of those wanting a "good cappuccino".

If someone wants beginner advice, there are other coffee websites targeting that demographic. I've observed the same market segmentation in other hobby interests; audio/video is one obvious example. Personally I think a certain degree of specialization is better than a "one site fits all" approach.

I am also a frequent reader (though missing in action for months at a time in the past year). I have also posted in a few flurries when trying to solve a technical problem or trying to learn something here. I consider myself a hobbyist, but find the help here to be at the semi-pro to professional level. At times I find the name Home Barista ironic--Barista is a professional title, but particularly in years gone by, and unless you lived in the right town, attempting pro techniques at home was your best chance for something like a professional quality espresso. It's interesting that this site is not amateur barista, which is more in tune with earlier comments about how most espresso is brewed at home.

My experience has not been that there are vast numbers of happy home baristas, quite the opposite. Though many friends and family members "tried" home espresso with low end grinders and semi-automatics, all of this equipment ended in the back of closets or at garage sales. Not sure if this is heresy here, but I routinely tell folks to get a Nespresso unit if they want espresso at home, unless they are willing to spend double that on a grinder and take up a new long term hobby. The Nespresso makes a drinkable shot, especially if you like the European style, and it is quick, easy, clean, convenient. Going beyond that at home requires a leap of commitment, it is not merely a matter of researching the next logical step. It strikes me that most long term lurkers are people who either are looking over the edge and considering that level of commitment, or like me, they have already jumped into the abyss. My friends and family see me as a slightly eccentric (not quite mad) scientist, but they do appreciate my coffee.

BTW, I do not see decisions about espresso at home in moral terms. While there are certainly aesthetic aspects, its just a simple choice of how to commit ones time, energy, and resources. I agree that among enthusiasts and hobbyists, people find different ways of being passionate whether the focus is on equipment, the methods or science of brewing, the history or contemporary culture, coffee varietals as in cupping, social issues and the business, of course barista technique, or certainly many other aspects I am forgetting. IMO this is generally healthy.

Russell, it is not my intention to nitpick, but rather, to offer the following as highly personal observations and/or comments on your post . . .

sbrussell wrote:First, it seems that there are several different types of contributors to the forums: professionals; those who really, really like straight espresso; and those who like modest milk drinks (macchiatos and cappuccinos).

And where does that put the people who drink lattes? Or, for that matter, people who drink all of the above: everything from straight shots, "modest milk drinks" (as you define it), and lattes?

sbrussell wrote:These further divide into those for whom espresso making is a hobby, perhaps a passion, and those who simply want to make good espresso drinks (of whatever kind they prefer) at home. Another dimension of separation is between those who mostly like to tinker with machines, those who want to educate themselves by visiting and observing, and those who are passionate about beautiful (effective and often expensive) equipment.

I understand what you are attempting to get at, and I think there are certainly a group of people here who love to tinker and those who don't. Generally, however, I think we all want to educate ourselves, and if we weren't passionate, we wouldn't be here. (In other words, while each of us has varying levels of personal disposable income, I don't know of anyone who buys a $10,000+ machine as a trophy.)

Additionally, I'm not sure "espresso" is a hobby. That is, one can certainly be passionate about one's coffee, but is making coffee in the morning -- regardless of how one does it -- a hobby, a necessity, or merely a boring ritual, like eating your breakfast, shaving, or taking a shower? Now, for those who home roast . . . that I would consider a hobby.

sbrussell wrote:It would be helpful if those who post would clarify where they stand on these matters. I think this would lead to more focussed responses.

Perhaps. Then again, I think a) we all learn from one another; and b) it's pretty easy, IMHO, to avoid the threads are are not of interest.

sbrussell wrote:I classify myself as a tinkerer who wants to make good macchiatos and cappacinos at home. For me this is a project, rather than a hobby. I own a Silvia and a Quickmill HX machine, both with PIDs I installed. Right now I'm tinkering with the Silvia and the much-disparaged Rocky grinder to get the best result I can. I am tasting the straight espresso produced and occasionally it tastes so good that I understand the potential addiction. But I don't want to succumb to it! If I did, I think espresso would become a time-consuming hobby and I don't want that.

If I understand you correctly, you (occasionally) really like the taste of a straight shot, but -- what? -- you think it will be too involved, take too much time and effort to make a straight shot of sufficient quality for you to regularly enjoy, and so you don't want to learn? try? enjoy?

Remember, Russell, I'm not criticizing you, merely attempting to understand.

sbrussell wrote:Still, tinkering with the machine, coffees, grinds, pressure, temperature, tamping, etc. makes this a fun project. When I'm satisfied I'll sell or give away the Silvia (and perhaps the Rocky) and move on to the HO machine . . .

HX?

sbrussell wrote: . . . whose larger boiler and E61 brew head should need a lot less tinkering.

I'm not sure that's true. Different tinkering, to be sure, but not "tinker-free."

sbrussell wrote:And I'll probably take up roasting because I think the roasted beans I buy would not be used up in the 2-3 week period recommended. (And it's another fun project, but it will die if it prooves as time-consuming as some claim.)

Now that's one hobby I sincerely have no interest in.

sbrussell wrote:If you intend to serve espresso to guests, I think you'd be better off with a double boiler machine. But they're expensive. So we just serve good drip coffee when we have guests. If we wanted to impress them, we can use an inexpensive siphon machine.

HX machines can "crank out" dozens of espresso drinks -- straight shots and milk drinks -- one after the other, limited only by the size of their built-in reservoir. And if they are plumbed in, I suppose the only limit is the number of cups and the amount of beans you have on hand.

sbrussell wrote:One mild criticism I have is that although it seems in the US almost everyone prefers some kind of milk drink to straight espresso (and I observe this even at the best espresso shops), the professionals and connoisseurs of straight espresso often reply to Newbies seeking advice that they have to spend years learning about espresso, or get training from a top barista . . .

I don't know. I don't recall ever reading that.

sbrussell wrote: . . . or buy expensive machines and grinders.

Doesn't that depend upon what one defines as "expensive"? As I've often said, on this site and elsewhere, you do not need to spend a fortune, but you DO need to spend something. So, for example, when it comes to new equipment, the least expensive setup I feel comfortable in recommending would be something like a Gaggia Classic, or possibly a New Baby, with something like a Baratza Preciso. Better deals (by which I mean less expensive) can be had buying used or refurbished gear, but then -- quite often -- one had better be a "tinkerer."

sbrussell wrote:Customers line up at Starbucks to buy really bad espresso concealed with milk and flavorings. It is generally acknowledged that even a small cappuccino can taste quite good with not-great espresso (from the connoisseur's viewpoint). So why discourage the Newbi who wants to make good cappuccinos at home by presenting success as a long road with major time and financial commitment?

I don't know anyone who acknowledges that -- at least not in such a way. Bad espresso as a straight shot? Into the sink. Bad espresso in a milk drink? Into the sink. Mediocre espresso? Well, yeah -- OK -- you might be able to salvage it with milk and/or sugar, but . . . well, why bother?

(FWIW, I cannot drink *$ straight, nor with milk.)

sbrussell wrote:Talking to baristas in two of the best shops in San Francisco, I was told that they had two (or more) blends available, and that such-and-such blend was great for milk drinks, but another one was best for straight espressos.

Quite common -- not only here, but in Seattle.

Cheers,
Jason

The best baristas I know can hammer out 30 or more quality drinks per hour.

To me, I want to be able to hammer out a quality drink within a minute or two of the onset of the desire. Period. I have to have the knowledge, the coffee, the machine and the grinder to be able to pull it off.

Right now I'm where I want to be. Some of you may not even like my espresso. I'm happy and it tastes good in comparison to my favorite shop, so I'm good to go.

In summary, coffee is a beverage and an interest, but most certainly not a passion or a hobby.

Peace,

joat

the_trystero wrote:The subtitle is either "Your guide to exceptional coffee" or "Your guide to exceptional espresso" When I first visited h-b.com I saw that and immediately realized sub-$100 espresso machines wouldn't be supported here.

Seriously... devils advocate here... in a blind survey, "most" people would equate "exceptional coffee" with a 20oz "macchiato" blended coffee milkshake, or perhaps some french roast drip from the diner, topped off with a flavored non-dairy creamer, steak and eggs, newspaper and menthol cigarette.

I am pretty fanatical about my espresso, but this site has put things in perspective for me several times.
And I am thankful for that!

Does every forum have to cater to all levels of interest? There are numerous forums for all things coffee. They vary in levels of discussion and interests. By their own genetic makeup, and as they have aged they each have taken on a "personality" and have each developed a focus that is, at least in some ways, unique to each of them. While the level of discussion and the knowledge and talent of each forum differs somewhat, I frequent most of them multiple times each day. I cherish the high standards here and the advanced nature of discussion has taught me a lot and has led me to not only strive towards better espresso, it has noticeably improved my espresso over the years I have participated here.

Now, to point that more towards the OP, as I understand it, I drink cappuccino almost exclusively when I am drinking espresso. Can I taste the difference in my own blends, my variances in extractions, in different home roasts? Absolutely! There is no doubt. The hot milkshakes that so many so called coffee shops serve have virtually no relation to what I make at home other than they started out with coffee beans and they are served on the same planet.

You have attempted to divide the participants of this site using some arbitrary parameters ("...professionals; those who really, really like straight espresso; and those who like modest milk drinks (macchiatos and cappuccinos). These further divide into those for whom espresso making is a hobby, perhaps a passion, and those who simply want to make good espresso drinks (of whatever kind they prefer) at home...") and I think that is a mistake. There is one thing that unites this site and that is the participants are here to move as close to exceptional espresso as their passion, talent, and budget will allow.

You stated, "Customers line up at Starbucks to buy really bad espresso concealed with milk and flavorings." People line up at MacDonalds and think they are eating quality beef. People eat American cheese.. and think it is cheese. So what? The top of the pyramid has room for the multitudes but holds but a few.

We don't make espresso so that we have something with which to tinker. We tinker to work towards making the best espresso possible. We are all individuals here, and we each have our own story. Some even created entire websites to document their journey.. But the one factor that is universal here is the quest for the best coffee possible regardless as to how it is brewed or how it is used once brewed.

When you enter a race you don't have to win, but if you don't make the effort to do so, why compete?