I find that there are so many similarities between this "espresso obsession" and the "audio obsession". For what I refer to as "audio obsession" please see:



Since I have suffered from both obsessions, you will allow me to speak with some authority; since I have conquered both, I will speak with humility.

The similarities:
- Intense interest in design & features
- Over concern with prices paid for said machinery (more is better)
- A strong desire to show off that machinery/equipment
- Over concern with the appearance of the set-up
- A strong desire to be different from the masses
- A near total lack of concern with the intended end result (taste of the coffee / sound of the music).

In audio, this results in folk who won't allow a record or CD to play for more than half a minute or so. Indeed, why would they since the music they most often play has no heart and soul. Rather, it was chosen because it is able to highlight some perceived audio characteristic for which they strive.

In espresso, this results in folk who don't finish their espresso, or who simply gulp it down with little appreciation/enjoyment. They only buy beans to show off their machinery and have little interest in what is in the cup.

This is where the similarities end. Whereas, the audiophile is paying a lot of $ for his software, often buying discontinued and/or scarce recordings from small labels because some audio "expert" had proclaimed the audio qualities (as opposed to the musical qualities) thereof. The espresso-phile has little concern for the taste, smell, mouth feel, aftertaste, etc. of what is in the cup and hence, is able to buy cheap beans as they are not the point of his obsession.

While we would all like to have a GS3 and Mazzer Robur - bought new, we can really appreciate the guy who uses a $250 Gaggia machine with a 2nd hand Mazzer Super Jolly (bought for $150 on EBay + another $50 for replacement burrs) and spends upwards of $25 a pound on the "software" required to satisfy his passion! < That's the guy I strive to be!

Len

Worldman wrote: The espresso-phile has little concern for the taste, smell, mouth feel, aftertaste, etc. of what is in the cup and hence, is able to buy cheap beans as they are not the point of his obsession.

While I won't proclaim to be in the pursuit of the perfect cup (but I'm figuring that with all the daily practice, I might well stumble upon it), my pursuit of both audio quality and espresso quality takes into account the laws of diminishing returns and my annual income.
I've been able to do a lot of both audio and coffee far less expensively than those with more disposable income, and to a certain degree, better and easier. I own three machines (four, if you include the Mypressi that's in a UPS truck as we speak) half a dozen grinders, and enough portafilters and baskets to make my gun collector friends wonder if they're missing something, but I don't think that I've paid full retail for any of it, and a lot of it came to me after the first owner 'broke it in' for me. My forays into audio kit have been somewhat similar (I have a stack of amps sitting out in the garage, and a coupla Magnapans in the living room still driven by a broadcast turntable) in both the personal and professional realm. I dunno if that puts me into the -phile category or not. My obsessions have always been tempered by budget and a firm grip on reality. That law of diminishing returns is weighed with every urge to purchase.
I do spend more than what I could on beans, because I know that they are half of the ingredients in my cup. I could buy Robusta that would look far better in my cup, but the flavour of tire fire is unappealing.
OTOH, I'll spend a few bucks to experience what the 'experts' suggest is a great coffee, for that experience. I even bought some Kopi Luwak to satisfy a curiosity, and have had JBM greens flown back so I could have them roasted fresh and custom.
For my daily cuppa, though,I try to keep an eye on that bottom line, with the other on that diminishing returns law. I could pay another ten bucks a pound, but would it improve my cup better than saving that ten bucks a week and getting something with a DB and a PID? Pressure profiling? Again, I dunno, but so far my palate has set a $12-16 limit on my weekly consumption, and buying more expensive coffees and adding shipping to that hasn't really shown me that that is going to make my drinking experience that much better. Perhaps if I had a more discerning palate, or perhaps better technique... But what if what I need is a better machine?!?
These are the questions that some of us deal with when we're contemplating where to put our resources. OTOH, if I can't really appreciate the difference between the $15/lb coffee from the $25, perhaps there is a $10/lb coffee out there, or a $7, that will satisfy my palate. IF one of those roving 'experts' says that they are getting great results with that $7/lb bean, I could cut my yearly coffee budget in half, yeah? I mean, if it's as good as reported...
Then I cold get the two group PID' Kees van der Westen lever by three christmases from now!

I see what you're saying, and I'm danged sure that there are a few of the kind of obsessed kit-o-philes out there that you describe. The wild generalization that all folks out there looking for a less expensive source of beans are those folk, or that all of those kit-o-philes couldn't care less about the cup, well, it's just a bit of that. Too general, and a touch wild.

But I did love the video! I have a coupla friends that I could introduce you to if you ever want to shoot one...

Worldman wrote:- Intense interest in design & features
- Over concern with prices paid for said machinery (more is better)
- A strong desire to show off that machinery/equipment
- Over concern with the appearance of the set-up
- A strong desire to be different from the masses
- A near total lack of concern with the intended end result (taste of the coffee / sound of the music).

You're probably hanging out with the wrong audio and espresso people.

The audiophiles I know want their opera recordings to sound like they remember from Vienna or La Scala with all the comforts of home; I want my Kenya shot to be as tasty as the brewed version with all the power of espresso.

As for these purported people who are all means and no ends; they are OCDishly sacrificing their own enjoyment to create a market for the products that improve mine. Why should I knock them?

I've always thought audiophiles were about sound or how perfect the oscilloscope reports the sound waves to be and not about visual aesthetics.

another_jim wrote:The audiophiles I know want their opera recordings to sound like they remember from Vienna or La Scala with all the comforts of home

+1... if only it were possible

any.kind.of.phile != hardware.geek

for a laff : Audiophilia Redux

cafeIKE wrote:+1... if only it were possible

You gotta come to Tucson. Or we have to take a trip to the Texas coast together. I'll show you sound systems that will put musicians in the room, and put you into anything from LaScala to the back room at Symphony in Vienna. While I am *not* (and that is sometimes the mantra that enable me not to be) susceptible to getting that reproduction at my house ('cause it'd cost me more than the house did), I'm still amazed and dazzled when I hear those systems.
As a person that plays tricks on your ears for his daily bread, it's really hard to suspend my disbelief when I know where the zipper is on the monster. And there are at least three 'home stereos' that blow my everluvvin mind.
Oh, it's possible. Like they love to say in racing, 'Just how fast can you afford to go?'

Are you saying there is a link between my importing and refurbishing a La Cimbali DRM grinder and my buidling my own tube amplifiers and horn speakers?

Worldman wrote:In espresso, this results in folk who don't finish their espresso, or who simply gulp it down with little appreciation/enjoyment. They only buy beans to show off their machinery and have little interest in what is in the cup.

Nope: not in this house.

Howard

Psyd wrote:...I see what you're saying, and I'm danged sure that there are a few of the kind of obsessed kit-o-philes out there that you describe. The wild generalization that all folks out there looking for a less expensive source of beans are those folk, or that all of those kit-o-philes couldn't care less about the cup, well, it's just a bit of that.

Hmmm...perhaps this is being taken out of context as it was originally posted as a reply to Malachi's Rant: Coffee Cheapskates. Dan thought it a good post and split it to its own thread.

Psyd wrote:Too general, and a touch wild.

Agreed! Actually, I have known many more equipment-centric audiophiles than equipment centric espresso-philes. Another way of saying this is that most folk I meet in the espresso community are true coffee aficionados who appreciate the result in the cup more than the equipment that got it there.

Malachi's original post said:

I keep reading things from people who are "coffee fanatics" - who are willing to spend thousands of dollars on equipment - and spend literally hours every day tinkering, experimenting, taking photos, and gossiping/boasting on the internet -- but who are outraged by the idea of spending more than around $12/lb on coffee.

Malachi's point is/was well taken. In audio, it reminds me of a complaint some years ago when the Audio Research SP9 pre-amp first came out. The unit is a hybrid design using both vacuum tubes and transistors. The tubes used are 2 (dual triode) 6DJ8s and the original circuitry required that they be powered on 24/7 as the pre-amp took several hours to "stabilize" after turn-on. It would simply sound pinched, nasty and 2 dimensional until it had played for about 3 hours. The detractors were saying that the cost of running the preamp 24/7 was too high. Indeed? Low noise 6DJ8s could be had back then for ~$25 or so. The unit only pulls ~10 watts at idle / 50 watts peak. Continuous operation mandated that the tubes be changed every 18 months or so. The annual cost of continuous operation was $33 for tubes plus another couple of bucks for the electricity. (This is based on costs > 10 years ago when most homes paid ~3 to 5 cents per kW hour. 10W/1000 x 24 hours x 365 days x 5 cents = $4.38.)

NB: A subsequent modification to Mk II cured the need for continuous powering or maybe it was just that mine had been played enough that the circuit stabilized within ~30' of switching on. Nonetheless, the point is that if one spends ~$2000 on a preamp, it can be assumed that they don't worry about another $37.50 a year in "operating costs".

Malachi's point that if one spends thousands for equipment they should not be "...outraged by the idea of spending more than around $12/lb on coffee."

True-dat.

Len

Hmmmm.......Everyone needs something to feed their brain and bodies besides work. The pursuit and involvement in special interests feeds the soul and I believe makes a much more interesting and happier person. Finding a mate that not only endorses these special interests but understands and promotes it makes for a much happier long term relationship. Keeping everything in proper balance and the budget makes sense to me. A male ( or anyone ) with no special interest is a pretty boring person in my opinion. There may be a fine line between psycho and brilliance? The hunt is always much more rewarding than the catch. Once you achieve what you are looking for then it is usually on to something else. We won't talk about the money I spent on audiophile equipment that is in a closet that hasn't been set up for about five years. Think Wilson Watt Puppy speakers and Spectral electronics. After achieving the sound I was looking for I can now listen to the music and it doesn't seem to matter if it's coming from a Bose tabletop or the car speakers. I can listen to the music while learning how to make a good espresso! Always searching for the perfect coffee, much like the perfect recording. Don't know where its going or how long it will last but I will have fed soul in search.

Now I must try my new Amaro Gayo while listening to a Shostakovich quartet on my Ipod? Hope Stalin has not resurrected or I am in deep doo-doo!