Being a longtime reader of home-barista I would have to say that "equipment-centric" people are the very small minority; if they even exist at all. Reading just the initial post, it would appear the opposite was being implied. Len did clarify this was not intention in his 2nd post.

After getting spousal approval after three years of superautomatic dreck, I have finally moved to a semi-automatic (Alexia PID) in 12/2009. Since then I read this site with more attention. From my reading so far of many older posts, I have not seen any "equipment-centric" posts who do not care about product in the cup. The ultimate focus is what is in the cup (e.g. taste comparison for "TGP Can it Beat the Mazzer Robur" used a PID Silvia and not some machine >$3K; Dan Kehn multiple statements that of the four M's: macchina is least important).

But with any "-phile" site, it is easier to talk about the equipment. Watching the beginning of the well-produced youtube video in the first post, you would initially think these men only focused on the equipment. But at 14min30sec mark, you can sense their passion for music. It is much harder for most to discuss and convey the emotional and sensory aspects of music reproduction/espresso. The great majority do not have the gustatory knowledge&vocabulary of Jim Schulman or the sound-reproduction knowledge&vocabulary of Robert Harley; so the focus on the equipment.

I wish as fortunate to afford Wilson Watt Puppy speakers. I have heard them in dedicated audio room in Bangkok and their sound was phenomenal. Many factors unfortunately prevent me from putting as much as my disposable income to audio or espresso. My quest is to be able to get the most quality of music reproduction/espresso for as little money as possible. The law of diminishing returns is always in my mind with purchase decisions. I think I will achieve that with my Intelligentsia Black Cat (among other recommended roasters by Jason Lewis) and new Alexia PID. Until I can find a good used Super Jolly (and yes I will get new burrs), I will have to suffice with my two-year old Rocky and Weiss Distribution Technique.

In my experience outside of home-barista, I have not met anyone who is espresso "machine-centric." I think the simple reason is semiautomatic & prosumer/professional grinder require too much effort. One of my colleagues has a super-auto and milk auto frother that costs >$3K. But many other colleagues have audiophile CD player and amplifer b.c. it is easy status symbol that requires same effort as cheaper equipment.

Psyd wrote:'Just how fast can you afford to go?'

Gave up at $30,000++ [1980's $]... listened on systems treble that and not one has ever transported me back to La Scala, wiener staatsoper, Carnegie Hall...

Nik wrote:Ipod

Unlistenable
Ditto XM, Sirius, HD-FM, MP3 et al.


Here's a segment of an iTunes AAC [red] vs original CD PCM [black]


from Why lossy encoding sounds bad

another_jim wrote:The audiophiles I know want their opera recordings to sound like they remember from Vienna or La Scala with all the comforts of home...

Jim,

Don't we all. Unfortunately, this is NOT possible, i.e. the recorded sound has NEVER sounded like the live version of the same. The most disconcerting thing is to listen to one's home set-up immediately after attending a live concert(*). There is an immediacy and clarity to live sound that NO audio set-up has yet replicated. Theoretically, it is possible that it someday may...but it ain't happened yet.

* = By live concert I refer to un-amplified music played in a venue with reasonable acoustics. Examples: a symphony orchestra in a decent hall, an orchestra in an orchestra pit at the ballet or opera, a choir or chorus or a small ensemble (string, jazz, voice, piano, etc.) played in an appropriate room.

cafeIKE wrote:+1... if only it were possible ...

Yep.

Len

With coffee, as with other things, - one can be swayed by the cafe where you enjoyed your first espresso - including the emotions felt about whom you were with at that time - so that an espresso which would be judged as a mediocre cup at home - is remembered as magical.

In music - I hear old jazz recordings as magical - such as late 20's Louis Armstrong - despite the considerable recording artifacts - the fuzz has become part of the magic.

Howard

That's the thing that baffles me about people who buy $100.000+ HiFi; why don't just employ a quartet of musicians?

Haydn: Three Favorite Concertos

Can you get Winton Marsalis, Yo-Yo Ma and Cho-Liang Lin for $100k?

Bluecold wrote:That's the thing that baffles me about people who buy $100.000+ HiFi; why don't just employ a quartet of musicians?

Or better yet, marry a musician! Live music on demand!

The only drawback is you then also have to drive her to concerts, carry the equipment, and help sell the CD's.

I'd extend the similarity between espresso geeks and audiophiles to include photographers in my experience. I have a feeling we are a male dominated group...there is something about these hobbies that is a marriage between technology and art that are satisfying. The technologies of all 3 range from older to cutting edge and people tout the virtues of both sides.

At the same time the output (espresso, sound, pictures) is highly subjective and also highly dependent on the human component more than we like to think. Despite this there is always that carrot or tool out there that is going to push what you can do over the edge whether that be a Speedster or a vacuum tube amp (for your ipod no less...geesh) or a Canon 5D Mark II...and you are CERTAIN that this is the answer to everything...and you spend a couple of years convincing your spouse that college payments can wait but wouldn't better tasting espresso be great!!!

The other amazing thing is that the technologies and capability of getting these things into homes has ramped up drastically over the last decade.

clumeng wrote:Despite this there is always that carrot or tool out there that is going to push what you can do over the edge whether that be a Speedster or a vacuum tube amp (for your ipod no less...geesh) or a Canon 5D Mark II...and you are CERTAIN that this is the answer to everything...

This is the road to a blathering and expensive perdition. You get the coffee gear, hi-fi, or cameras to do justice to a particular coffee, piece of music, or picture you couldn't otherwise; not to see what wonderfully nebulous coffees, music pieces or pictures will magically appear once you have them.

Another example would be in one other of my hobbies; homebrewing beer. Even the most tricked out, computer controlled homebrewing (beer) rig doesn't guarantee a great result. It's just a tool. Sure certain equipment can make things easier to be consistent or streamline the process, but the person making the beer (or photo, or espresso) has more to do with the quality of the end result than the hardware does.