...Split from WBC 2007 Finalists announced by moderator....

another_jim wrote:This is an area of the rules that could be revisited; perhaps to allow 3 to 4 ounce cappa cups and servings, as opposed to the current 5 to 6 ounces.

To what end would we be revising the rules? Is a 1:3 ratio beverage common anywhere? Don't get me wrong; I agree that it would taste better, but I just think that barista comps need to keep in touch with reality. And the sad thing is that I suspect that might mean adding more milk, not less.

Cheers,

Luca

luca wrote:To what end would we be revising the rules? Is a 1:3 ratio beverage common anywhere?

It's common at the cafes where BC competitors work.

another_jim wrote:I'm basically surprised that anything except a French roast Sumatra can make it in the Barista competition caps. When judging, one calibrates ones scoring; but overall, the competition caps suffer in comparison to the far less expert double shot ones I make for myself every morning.

Gotcha, and right there with ya.

This is an area of the rules that could be revisited; perhaps to allow 3 to 4 ounce cappa cups and servings, as opposed to the current 5 to 6 ounces.

Actually thinking of competing for the first time at the next Northwest Regional. Wonder how badly I'd get dinged if I used the 3oz ACF "espresso macchiato" cups for the caps! Of course, when I use the 3oz's for macch's it's with a double shot but would be just right for a single shot cap'. You know what, being a first time competitor chances will be slim to none of placing well going against the caliber baristi these parts anyway so why compromise. The caps at my soon to be Roastery Cafe will be 3:1 double shot 6oz ACF Nero cup caps, see no reason not to make the same ratio for competition. That way they will be reflecting more real world Third Wave shop cappuccinos.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Actually thinking of competing for the first time at the next Northwest Regional. Wonder how badly I'd get dinged if I used the 3oz ACF "espresso macchiato" cups for the caps!

I'm not entirely sure. Probably the judges would score the caps as usual and put a comment on the score sheet to check the cup volume. Once the violation is confirmed, all the cap scores would be changed to zero. They may also disqualify you. I'd have to dig through the rules to find out. Either way, you'd be last by a long way.

another_jim wrote:I'm not entirely sure. Probably the judges would score the caps as usual and put a comment on the score sheet to check the cup volume. Once the violation is confirmed, all the cap scores would be changed to zero. They may also disqualify you. I'd have to dig through the rules to find out. Either way, you'd be last by a long way.

Hmmm, the rules for last year's NW Regional seems a bit ambiguous.

All styles of cappuccinnos are acceptable.... A traditional (emphasis added) cappuccino is a 5 to 6 ounce beverage...

So might get away with smaller cup size with explanation of purpose, ie exactly the typical ratio served in local Pacific Northwest Third Wave cafes. Besides, why would I not serve the judges the same ratio cappuccino I'd serve a discerning customer rules be damned! OR could use the usual traditional 5 to 6oz cup and push it the other way with a double shot in each but that would be more difficult to serve four simultanesouly and in time frame.

WBC Judges Handbook, 2007 wrote:5.3.5 Correct cappuccino cups used
Cappuccinos should be served in a five-to-six-ounce cup (150-180 ml) with a handle.

This will govern the next round of regionals and nationals; the stuff about "culture" is preamble, not rule.

another_jim wrote:This will govern the next round of regionals and nationals; the stuff about "culture" is preamble, not rule.

The 2006 regionals had the same verbiage following the cultural preamble I quoted. Again the rules say should not must. I'd argue using a 3oz cup for a single shot cap' is not grounds for disqualification should that arise since it is not stated as mandatory requirement but verbiage I interpret as more a suggestion and the local norm and trend is in fact more 3 to 1 ratio not the milkier 5 to 1. So what if I got scored low, I'd be staying true to the cup and don't expect to have a chance against the likes of Billy and company anyway. Eventually maybe, but not even close yet. If I was disqualified I'd appeal as far as I could on principle.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:The 2006 regionals had the same verbiage following the cultural preamble I quoted. Again the rules say should not must. I'd argue using a 3oz cup for a single shot cap' is not grounds for disqualification should that arise since it is not stated as mandatory requirement but verbiage I interpret as more a suggestion and the local norm and trend is in fact more 3 to 1 ratio not the milkier 5 to 1. So what if I got scored low, I'd be staying true to the cup and don't expect to have a chance against the likes of Billy and company anyway. Eventually maybe, but not even close yet. If I was disqualified I'd appeal as far as I could on principle.

Go ahead and use a 3 ounce cup if you want; you can claim Scots cultural practice for your misunderstanding "should."

another_jim wrote:Go ahead and use a 3 ounce cup if you want; you can claim Scots cultural practice for your misunderstanding "should."

With the tone of the conversation on this thread earlier being that 'life imitates art', in that there have been advances in coffeedom initiated at the WBC competitions, (or possibly vice versa), are we of the opinion that the very large milk portions are the result of the WBC rules, or are the rules the result of the lack of tradition in most coffeehouses?
Chicken or egg,?

Psyd wrote:With the tone of the conversation on this thread earlier being that 'life imitates art', in that there have been advances in coffeedom initiated at the WBC competitions, (or possibly vice versa), are we of the opinion that the very large milk portions are the result of the WBC rules, or are the rules the result of the lack of tradition in most coffeehouses?
Chicken or egg,?

The 5 to 6 ounce cappa cup is traditional; and I don't know how many Italians order their morning cappa with a single or double shot -- so the way it's done at the barista championships is completely within the bounds of long standing tradition. The problem is that it's a bit of a catch 22 for the baristas. Latte art requires a denser foam, and that results in an insipid drink (too much weight of milk). A cappa with light, but still pourable, foam all the way down will taste better; and get a good score for foam depth. But it runs the risk of not having enough contrast for the appearance score.

My feeling is that under the current rules it takes an amazing amount of skill to make even passable cappas; and I haven't had any I consider really great when judging (I'm too junior to have judged a final, but I have judged several finalists). It has one advantage, the current cappa format makes it a sort of palate rest for the judges.

To me, a great cappa is amazingly creamy and sweet, powerfully roasty tasting (caramel, nuts, chocolate, spice), and carries a hint of fruit. I'm not sure such a confection is possible with the mandated ratios. It's easy enough to test this at home -- make two cappas from a double shot and see how good they can get.