Also see discussion of Milo's prior installment, Article by Italian Barista on American espresso.

A more interesting article, in my opinion, would be a blind taste test between espressos prepared Milo's way and the same prepared by the cafe staff with copious descriptions of (a) what changes were made, and (b) what improvements, if any, the sensory judges noted. Otherwise, my reaction to this series of "espresso the Italian way" articles remains... *shrug*

I have no problem with people not liking an espresso I think is good.
But that's not the point.
The problem is when you say that you are the universal arbiter for all that is good and right. The problem is when you say, "what I like - what I define as correct - that is the only right answer."
If these articles were all about how he didn't like the espresso here I'd be saying "cool, let's chat about it."
Instead they're all about how the espresso here is "not true espresso" and we are "ruining" espresso.

At the end of the day, however, people like him are dinosaurs.
Tim Wendelboe pointed this out in his brilliant comment to my blog post (quoted below).
I'm hoping to keep this in mind in the future.

tim wendelboe wrote:These guys belong to the stone age. Always focusing on what coffee SHOULD be instead of trying to explore what it CAN be.
I wouldn't spend my energy on discussing with stubborn people like this. Let them continue looking for something from the past. I will be looking forward to my next cup!

GVDub wrote:http://www.salon.com/food/feature/2010/08/25/american_espresso

How much divergence is there between traditional Italian espresso and what high-end 'Third Wave' shops are doing in the U.S.? I'm certainly not one who believes in jettisoning tradition altogether (hey, I'm primarily a blues musician, even at my most experimental, and those traditions are important to me), how much needs to be retained or acknowledged to stay rooted? Just a couple of questions this article raised in my mind.

Thanks for posting this link. Danged interesting. I find it funny how 20 years ago this sort of article from an Italian with a lot of history in espresso making would have been listened to by a lot of baristas with respect in this country. I guess times have changed.

bernie wrote:I find it funny how 20 years ago this sort of article from an Italian with a lot of history in espresso making would have been listened to by a lot of baristas with respect in this country. I guess times have changed.

Indeed, it doesn't take long to go from well-regarded pro to grotesque dinosaur these days.

An important point is being lost here: Giorgio Milos does not represent Italian espresso, he represents Illy. And this is not the Illy of old, of Ernesto, or of Illy labs. This is the Illy of "luxury brand management," of shelf stable hyperespresso (to be found next to other hyperrealities, like Lindt Chocolate), of coffee clubs and coffee boutiques.

I doubt a regular Italian barista or espresso lover would go to cafe after cafe and repeatedly give a whole wine tasting put down spiel. If the remarks over the years I've heard about Italians having shots at 3rd wave places is at all true, a remark like Bene, forse un po 'pesante would probably be more like it. But if he only said that, Illly wouldn't be paying for the tour.

another_jim wrote:And this is not the Illy of old, of Ernesto, or of Illy labs. This is the Illy of "luxury brand management," of shelf stable hyperespresso (to be found next to other hyperrealities, like Lindt Chocolate), of coffee clubs and coffee boutiques.

And this abomination:



(Saw it in SkyMall the other day. More info here.)

There's a bunch of factors at play here, which should be separated out. For the record, I don't like what this Illy representative is selling, and I equally dislike what the "Third Wave Cafes" produce, for different reasons. In the end, it is of course, a matter of taste.

It might be, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, that Illy coffee in Italy might be fresher and the shots pulled from it there might be enjoyable. The jury on that is out for me at the moment, although I've never had a shot of Illy that I liked anywhere, including shots I pulled myself on my own equipment 10 minutes after opening one of those gas infused whole bean cans, at the beginning of what supposedly is the short period before this "Progyria Coffee" completely falls apart.

The "factors at play" are:

(1) the Coffee itself used for espresso, whether a blend or a single origin;

(2) the dose of said coffee used to make the shot;

and

(3) how the person making the shot, e.g. the barista, makes it.

People have different tastes. Some people like blends, be they Italianish (and flat/plain/"boring") or however you want to characterize them, or the N. American "marquee" type blends which tend to be effusive and "in your face." Some will like other options such as single origins. The latter includes ME. Different blends and/or single origins will function better at differing doses, which will depend upon the coffees in them and personal taste. That deals with #1.

The dose used is almost inextricably linked with #1 above, in that some coffees just more or less "demand" a certain dose range. As an example, almost all the marquee N. American blends will taste like dishwater if dosed less than about 16.5g, and won't come into their own until you go to 18 or more g, depending on the blend, for a double shot. You may not like them at those higher doses, and you may not in fact like any coffee at those higher doses (like me), but for sure those coffee blends will taste like crap when dosed at the lower end of the range. That about deals with #2.

As to barista skills these will include dosage used, how one deals with the dosage used (including basket preparation), temperature management, grind setting, and when one chooses to terminate the shot. That about deals with #3.

Almost all of the rest of it in the end is going to revolve around personal taste. Italian espresso as served in Italian cafes is the most consistent in the world, and if I had to choose a country where I could find the most consistent espresso beverages I'd choose Italy. But I would get bored there after a while, because there is very little special there and very little that rises above the average.

ken

another_jim wrote:An important point is being lost here: Giorgio Milos does not represent Italian espresso, he represents Illy. And this is not the Illy of old, of Ernesto, or of Illy labs. This is the Illy of "luxury brand management," of shelf stable hyperespresso (to be found next to other hyperrealities, like Lindt Chocolate), of coffee clubs and coffee boutiques.

Lindt Chocolate used to be good, actually. It was (and maybe still is) the only one of the major Swiss brands that remains in family hands. Unfortunately, they decided to open factories in a whole bunch of places, and the chocolate that comes out of these far flung factories (in the USA, France, and undoubtedly other places) is quite mediocre in comparison to what they used to make in Switzerland alone. I used to seek out Lindt and was shocked at what I have bought under their brand name in France and in the USA. Now, I avoid the brand entirely.

To my knowledge the only Swiss brand that is only made in Switzerland and nowhere else, is Tobler. Those diamond shaped Toblerone bars are only made in Switzerland, or at least I have never found a bar of it that was made anywhere else, no matter where I bought it. I have read that the formulation is somewhat different, depending on where it is to be exported, and this is because they don't want their chocolate bars to become a runny mess in hotter climates, where the sellers might not have a proper facility to keep them at the point of sale to prevent spoilage. But other than that, they are all uniquely Swiss made.

And who owns Tobler? That's a funny question. It is owned by Kraft, the huge American foods company, that until recently was part of a tobacco company.

ken

Illy.. need we say more? I had a high-acid straight espresso at a local independent shop that was one of the tastiest I have ever had. If your palate is accustomed to marking Illy as the benchmark then much of the world's espresso is going to disappoint... Illy is smooth and tasty and fairly well lacking in anything exciting or special. Easy to brew is about it. As was said drink what you like. If we can't believe John Cleese, what is the world coming to?

And if I recall correctly, in '87 when I got a Toblerone in England, it was made with vanillin... On the same trip we got some amazing handmade chocolates in a little shop at the foot of the mountains were the famous Reichenbak Falls is located. Enjoyed it with some local beer while watching the sunset on the mountains, and listening to the signal horns on the Swiss trains as they passed the campsite, it was a good night, indeed.

Well, not everyone likes bright espressos....

But make no mistake, the new Illy is not the old Illy. I've had some excellent cups of Illy in Italy. They didn't earn their reputation for nothing. But that was years ago, when it was supplied fresh and they didn't use their new long-shelf-life packaging/conservation techniques.

A good Italian espresso is a fantastic drink and I still believe no one does it like the Italians. But I love a single origin, updosed ristretto, too. And no one is going to make me choose between them.

And I'll carry on drinking retsina, too

Cheers

Mike