Hi Guys,

I am a bit new to inventing something, but I stumbled onto something recently and am now working to create a product from it. I have a rough prototype built (it is an electric device) the product name and rough design, and an artist friend is currently drawing better mockups for me. As far as I know this is a unique concept in the world of espresso and I could likely sell 1,000's of the devices. My big worry is how to proceed on a shoe string budget and not end up with someone ripping off the idea and stealing my market. If I launch a website that shows concept art, descriptions, and offers a waiting list signup... is this enough to protect the idea? For example if someone stole the idea I could say "you ripped this idea from me as it was displayed online for 3 months" then take legal action, or must I file international design patents (again, back to the shoe string budget woes). My plan was essentially outsource the parts, then construct the devices at home and sell them. If we start to get back orders then look into renting industrial space a couple of staff and sourcing bulk parts. I am thinking I will have to bite the bullet and file design patents.. But I have vaguely heard that if your product is out there and you have sold it, then it is somewhat protected by default? If anyone is skilled in these matters thanks for advice

Dude.. you either need to get a patent attorney, or do a LOT more research. I am not an expert, but the first thing you need to do is a patent search. If you put some idea out there and claim it is yours, and some other company is already holding a patent for something similar, the subsequent lawsuit may be costly... to you. Saying you are the first, and proving you are the first are two very different things.

"Grasshopper.. you must first pack your bags before beginning such a long journey.. And don't forget the sunscreen!"

Well I wish you luck and hope you have something that we all want & you make a million dollars. Having said that, no matter how enthusiastic you are, it's unlikely that you are going to sell a ton of whatever. If you do, you've beaten the odds by a considerable margin. So think twice before investing your life savings into whatever you have.

Now presuming that you're still full steam ahead.. and if you really believe you have something, you need a patent. Even then a patent is only a legal basis to fight if someone does rip off your idea. And if it's someone with deep pockets who rips you off, you may have to spend untold sums of money to ultimately (err, hopefully) prevail. Say what you like about lawyers, but there is no doubt that they command obscene amounts of money to do your bidding. I don't think that evidence of prior art is going to get you too far in a legal battle.

So it's either a rush to market and selling your item before anyone has a chance to really rip it off. Or if you can manage it, apply for a patent, then rush to market to capture that market share before someone tries to rip your idea off. Cease and desist letters on fancy legal letterhead will scare some people off, but if someone really wants to take your idea and run.. you'd wish that you had a patent. In any event, if you end up fighting a legal battle, the patent costs will be small potatoes compared to the legal costs (patent or not). So good luck & if you really think that you have something, bite the bullet and get a patent.

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srossnz wrote:But I have vaguely heard that if your product is out there and you have sold it, then it is somewhat protected by default?

I'm not a lawyer, but having contributed to a few patent applications, I have been exposed to patent lawyers. I recall that once you've publicly discussed/demonstrated an invention, the clock starts ticking on your right to file a patent on it (one year?). My recommendation is not to publicly disclose any ideas related to an invention you hope to patent, especially on a public website like this.

On the other hand, if you don't wish to patent your ideas, I suppose that publicly documenting/demonstrating/producing establishes prior art should someone else try to patent the same idea. Of course, that doesn't mean they could not claim otherwise and sue you for patent infringement.

from what i understand , as a patent holder that used a patent/trademark attorney, a patent is only as strong as your ability to defend it. Having one is great, but a huge company with a team of lawyers will kick your butt every time, or just put you out of business by making you spend all your money defending the patent.

there are concept patents (an idea) design patents (the design). I went with concept patent on mine because it seems more broad of a reach.

I have been in this situation many times and am in it right now as a software developer for iPhone apps.

I suggest.

moving along quietly until you are far enough along that it is (1) presentable and (2) far enough along in development that you will be first to market and hopefully enjoy that for a few months before that awesome idea is knocked off.

OH and you are in NZ, might need international patents for any country in which you feel like you want to have rights to your idea.

get a patent or not? up to you to decide how important it is, but it is NOT a guarantee the idea is "safe" from being copied.

Hi guys, thanks! Well, I am going to lay low and build a second prototype (parts are on the way). This will really be quite close to a production level prototype. At that stage I think I will bite the bullet and see a patent attorney, get it patented.

I also need to investigate what is involved in selling an electrical product. I'm assumng it needs to pass some sort of certification of some kind.

I'll keep this thread updated as I progress.

Can't lose track of this thread, looking forward to seeing what you've come up with!

srossnz wrote:I also need to investigate what is involved in selling an electrical product. I'm assumng it needs to pass some sort of certification of some kind.

Get your prototype working first. Research your market, get advice from people you trust, investigate manufacturing costs, make a tentative business plan, etc. If everything remains kosher, then you can apply for a patent, look into electrical certification, etc. I believe you can mark your product patent pending while waiting on the patent as it is usually a lengthy process. You may have to file patents in various countries e.g. your perceived market.

Electrical /safety certification is complex and you should consult an specialist. Many countries require specific certifications and this may even vary by state within a country. In the U.S. OSHA recognizes a number of certification organizations to be "nationally recognized testing laboratories" (NRTLs) that can certify products e.g. Underwriters Laboratories (UL mark). For Japan PSE, Germany VDE, Canada CSA, etc.

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I would check http://www.google.com/patents first. I did, and it turns out that someone else had my million dollar idea, and didn't make a million dollars.

-phillip

And even posting that this new idea is electrical and it has something to do with espresso will have every idiot trying to outguess you... like me thinking that it is an ultrasonic vibrator with a vertical operating axis meant to settle the grounds in a portafilter for perfect distribution...

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