Psyd wrote:Look outside your country. Having travelled quite a bit, I'm still startled at how much US citizens are out of synch with the rest of the world, and how nationalist we are about it.

Yes! I am constantly dumbfounded and dismayed about all sorts of things that we, as a Country, do that are really bass-ackward and embarrassingly lame for being such an "advanced" "World leader".

But I really feel that Rancilio's inclusion of the dreaded plastic device simply underscores the need for getting a tamper. Everyone has their fave, as has been stated many times.

Oh, yeah... I follow F1... And Moto GP... And World Superbike...

what are they going to do? ....

put a reg barber in every box?

they do it so you arent left hangin' with nothing to tamp with.

i recently received a la marzocco GB/5 ... it comes with a plastic tamper....albeit one hell of a plastic tamper, but a plastic tamper none the less.

jon

Does anyone have a pic of this LM plastic tamper that is superior to all the silly 56mm tampers that come with lesser machines?

I actually really liked the coffee scoop/tamper combo that came with my Vetrano. After I cut off the piston with my Dremel and sanded it down (and later drilled a hole in the end to hang it on a hook), I had a nice little coffee scoop that I use more often than the cheap pressed stainless steel one that I have--plastic though it is, it's a much nicer scoop--flexes rather than bends.

Courtesy of marzoccoman.com, where this beautiful plastic tamper can be yours for the low, low price of 10.60


edit: actually they're out of stock.. :-/

I should have tried that. Thanks. Wow, that's a pretty awesome tamper. I would still buy an EPNW Compressore or an Espressocraft tamper, myself, but that's a tamper that could last you for a good while if, say, you just blew $2k on an espresso machine and $1k on a grinder, and your wife wasn't, you know, in the mood to listen to how you need an $80 tamper...

2K for a new marzocco complete with plastic tamp?!?!?!

you just got one hell of a deal.

jon

Sorry, I was implying that it would be a great idea if Rancilio, Quickmill, Elektra, Isomac, etc. put this type of tamper--a beefy plastic tamper that fit the basket of the machine it was bundled with--that we'd all be in better shape waiting on the WAF to go back up to include a nice tamper in the budget. Alas, none, it seems, is as righteous as La Marzocco. Someone should suggest that they make a home machine...

paisley wrote:........ I opted to take the question straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak, in hopes of receiving the real answer. The answer came today via email, straight from the VP of Sales for Rancilio.......

The email came by way of the Rancilio VP of Sales.

.......Rancilio goes on to state that they studied that the tamper can be a very personal tool and there are many choices for consumers. Many upgrade, again according to Rancilio, to the tampers that are $30 to $50. The email stated that the company "would not want to add a $20 tamper and still have consumers not be happy with it" (the tamper).

Furthermore, the email states that the commercial machines (price figures stated as $2000 up to $12,000) come with plastic tampers too - then the customer decides what type of tamping he/she will be doing.

Rancilio states that cost is a factor that needs to be considered for the machine. Everything added will eventually have a cost effect in the marketplace. The company tries to stay competitive while producing the best quality machine as possible. The email goes on with the claim of absorbing some costs such as the portafilter that changed to the commercial one while sustaining the current price.
....................
Finally, the email ends with facts that Rancilio is primarily a commercial machine manufacturer and as such, that is their focus.............

I came upon this thread late... just found it as a matter of fact, so I dug back to the above-quoted OP, and I am amazed at what a load of naturally-produced, organic soil additive that letter from the VP of Sales for Rancilio is. I had to go back and make sure that it wasn't posted on 4/1/06. The excuses read like getting shot by the police, then they tell you how much better off you are with a bullet in you because the added weight in your behind lowers your center of gravity so you can run and jump better now.. OK, not quite, but....

In my opinion, the fact that the tamper is made of plastic does not even enter into the discussion— It might be the third point of complaint in order of importance. They need to be confronted as to why the thing isn't even remotely close to 58mm! I think it is included so that they can say it is included, as that is, by far, it's greatest benefit: "Includes Tamper."

Cost factor!? What would the additional cost have been to add the few additional mm's of plastic to make it fit the basket? 'Not wanting to include a $20 tamper?' How about including a properly-fitting $3.50 tamper? I liked my Silvia, and it served me well for quite some time, but reading that letter from Rancilio USA makes me glad I no longer own a Rancilio product.

My pull on this is that I think that some injection molding company already was making those for some other machine(s), Rancilio contracted with them to purchase them in large lots (50,000 at a time?), and it saved them the cost to create the molds for a proper-sized tamper, and they never gave it another serious thought.

Do not get tempted by that LM tamper! It sticks to the coffee so the polishing move destroys the surface of a carefully prepared puck.

Randy G. wrote:Cost factor!? What would the additional cost have been to add the few additional mm's of plastic to make it fit the basket? 'Not wanting to include a $20 tamper?' How about including a properly-fitting $3.50 tamper? I liked my Silvia, and it served me well for quite some time, but reading that letter from Rancilio USA makes me glad I no longer own a Rancilio product

Reading your rection towards Rancilio company about this issue, made me think that your Vibiemme came with a better tamper, at least $20 worth and "proper sized" ... No?

Randy G. wrote:My pull on this is that I think that some injection molding company already was making those for some other machine(s), Rancilio contracted with them to purchase them in large lots (50,000 at a time?), and it saved them the cost to create the molds for a proper-sized tamper, and they never gave it another serious thought.

Rancilio company is the only one doing this OR there are other well known italian espresso machine producers giving exact same plastic scoop/tamper. Lets think again... While thinking... did it ever occur to you almost all italian grinders with tamper attachment have the same "problem". Or is it really a problem for them? For instance Cimbali machines have 58mm portafilter but cimbali grinder's tamper attachment 54mm sized (same with MD and Mazzer grinders etc) and most of the italian baristas use this attachments for tamping. Pushing all coffee grounds all the way down, tamping with 30lb force is not an italian practice. In general they prefer smaller sized tampers and tamp with 8-10lb force. Maybe they don't want to push down all those particles for some good/logical reason, who knows

I still believe it's not machine producer's job to include tampers. People argue that they pay $2000 - $4000 to these machines, so the producers should add a $20-$40 worth tamper... Well, what will be our reaction if producers use this argument and say "you pay $2000 - $4000 for a home setup then $20-$40 extra shouldn't be a problem".

If you were to buy a ferrari or a porsche or a lamborghini, be assured they won't come with a full tank and/or 4 extra tire