This has been bothering me for a while now. And I'm sorry - but I have to let it out.

I keep reading things from people who are "coffee fanatics" - who are willing to spend thousands of dollars on equipment - and spend literally hours every day tinkering, experimenting, taking photos, and gossiping/boasting on the internet -- but who are outraged by the idea of spending more than around $12/lb on coffee.

I read things from people who have spent close to $5k on high-end equipment - and buy coffee at Costco.

Why would you take no shortcuts with the least important part of the process and then cut corners on the most important one?!?!

It makes no sense.

I know that this forum tends to attract people who are a little more focused on the process than the end result (just look at the total posts in the gear topic areas versus the coffee topic are).
But I don't get this.

Flat out... the beverage you produce in the end WILL NOT be good if you use bad coffee.
A skilled barista can make a great drink from great coffee on inferior equipment. But even the best barista working with state-of-the-art gear cannot produce great results from bad coffee.

People have asked me... is there a shortcut to making great coffee drinks.
Yes. There is.
Start with great coffee.

+10^333

I couldn't agree more. I spend well over $12.00 a lb. just at my local roaster —for a custom blend/SO + custom small batch roast.

If any thing is true in life, it's that —barring a fluke— one gets what one pays for.

$10,500: The cost of drinking premium coffee at my current rate of consumption for the next 30 years...

Oh, wait, that's not the cost of the coffee, just the shipping (@ 5 dollars per bag)!!

A bit silly, I know. I could add up lots of little expenses over a vast period of time and arrive at a shocking number, but until shipping prices fall and stay down - count me as one of the cheapskates - or at least someone who will only be buying local or roasting my own.

But, as your point was geared towards folks with fat cat equipment who cannot or will not fork out the money for fat cat coffee, I cannot find anything to disagree with. Its a bit like seeing the new Cadillacs or F-150s scattered throughout your local trailer parks.

malachi wrote:I keep reading things from people who are "coffee fanatics" - who are willing to spend thousands of dollars on equipment - and spend literally hours every day tinkering, experimenting, taking photos, and gossiping/boasting on the internet -- but who are outraged by the idea of spending more than around $12/lb on coffee.

They are the first cousins of people who spend $5,000 on espresso machines and grinders, then use ultra-soft water to avoid having to descale. Buying, displaying and talking about high-priced machinery come first. Enjoying the very best cup of coffee they can is pretty much an afterthought.

noah wrote: Its a bit like seeing the new Cadillacs or F-150s scattered throughout your local trailer parks.

Quite often that F-150 is a work tool. And where you work with a truck, quite often the pay isn't enough to get you out of the trailer park... Same cheapskates want to have their house built, plumbed, and wired for less money, too...

Anyhoo, if I can find a coffee that drinks as well or better for 12 than the current buck an ounce I usually pay, I'll take it. Why not? If there is a roaster that's driving a caddy and putting two kids through college with his bean prices, and another that's just making rent and some extra cash to survive, I'll take the less expensive beans.

It's hard out there right now, and my employment has dwindled to the point that I think I may have missed the memo in which they told me that I was retired. Am I still giving my local roasters their $16 bucks? Am I still forking over $12 for twelve ounces and acting like we both don't know what's going on? Sure I am.
But show me a bag o' beans that's fitty cent an ounce that tastes as good as what I'm getting elsewhere and I'd have to be a compleat eye dee ten tee to pass it up.
If I brought my roaster a bag of freshness that was as good or better than his at half the price, he'd understand that I was leaving him.

Marshall wrote:They are the first cousins of people who spend $5,000 on espresso machines and grinders, then use ultra-soft water to avoid having to descale. Buying, displaying and talking about high-priced machinery come first. Enjoying the very best cup of coffee they can is pretty much an afterthought.

Hey Marshall,

Let's do a little test. You come over to my place and we'll do some blind taste tests of your designer water vs. my cation softened water, in espresso drinks. I'll be willing to wager a very large sum that you will not be able to pick out the drinks made with designer water more often than by chance. I have enough experience with simultaneous paired blind espresso tasting trials to know that I'm not risking my money.

ken

I home roast: $5 - $6 per lb. At least it's fresh. When someone starts paying me mucho moulah$$ for my precious time - I may let someone else do the roasting.

Howard

malachi wrote:This has been bothering me for a while now. And I'm sorry - but I have to let it out.

I keep reading things from people who are "coffee fanatics" - who are willing to spend thousands of dollars on equipment - and spend literally hours every day tinkering, experimenting, taking photos, and gossiping/boasting on the internet -- but who are outraged by the idea of spending more than around $12/lb on coffee.

I read things from people who have spent close to $5k on high-end equipment - and buy coffee at Costco.

You are obviously reading the wrong threads

malachi wrote:Why would you take no shortcuts with the least important part of the process and then cut corners on the most important one?!?!

It makes no sense.

I know that this forum tends to attract people who are a little more focused on the process than the end result (just look at the total posts in the gear topic areas versus the coffee topic are).
But I don't get this.

Flat out... the beverage you produce in the end WILL NOT be good if you use bad coffee.
A skilled barista can make a great drink from great coffee on inferior equipment. But even the best barista working with state-of-the-art gear cannot produce great results from bad coffee.

People have asked me... is there a shortcut to making great coffee drinks.
Yes. There is.
Start with great coffee.

Equipment and its use are a lot easier to talk about, then to talk about nuances in coffee. And, talking about food or wine or coffee is nowhere near as interesting as consuming it.

I love wine, in fact I have a decently sized cellar, but I don't find reading wine reviews to be very interesting. If on the other hand someone invented a really cool corkscrew, or found a new type of wine glasses that don't scratch in the dishwasher, I'd be more interested in discussing those things than hearing someone else describe their taste impressions of a wine. Now it is true that if in real time you are drinking an espresso or sharing some wine with someone else who is consuming the same thing -- then you can discuss what you are sensing because both of you are consuming the same thing, right then. But just to discuss the taste of something in a vacuum -- I'd almost rather read the phone directory.

People discuss equipment because it is easy to discuss, and most people obsess about large purchases. The fact that people discuss these things does not necessarily mean they don't enjoy the coffee the machines produce. Although I have participated on a couple of GS3 threads here today, I didn't comment that I made two shots on the GS3 today with some Yemen Anesi I roasted 4 days ago. The coffee was purchased green from Bob Yellin's green bean coop about 6 months ago and surprisingly, it is still producing fantastic shots. Those two shots I made today, from my own roast product, with my own horrid cation softened water (per Marshall) were among the two best shots I have ever drunk, anywhere, including scads of places that have famous blends, use topflight baristas, and use designer water. Had I typed these few preceding sentences and posted them here on HB today, would you have found it interesting and worth reading, Chris? If so, you would have been one of the few, which is why I didn't post it.

I would agree, however, that using bad or mediocre or stale coffee in high priced equipment is idiotic.

ken

I almost started a thread saying how buying really good coffee solved the few remaining distribution problems that I have been having.

I've been buying Counter Culture over the counter at my local coffeeshop.

$12 for 12 oz bag.

I was really surprised at how much better it tastes than the other local roaster coffee I had been using. I also was really surprised at how - channeling and spritzers disappeared.

You've got to understand that two months ago I had never held a portafilter in my hand, hell I didn't really even know what a portafilter was. No way I could be doing really good stuff without really good beans

Well, I just found out today that the local roaster I had been buying from in Asheville got sold about 6 weeks ago. I had somebody pick up a bag of the espresso blend and the new owners just aren't nearly as good as the previous owner.

regardless - there is a tremendous amount of difference.

I do two doubles a day. I wish I could drink more, but my system goes whacko. I forget exactly what I came up with but expensive coffee costs something like a dollar or two a day more. Hey, I don't chase women, golf, etc, etc. It keeps me out of bars and off the streets - which would cost a lot more anyhow