+1
IMO, we're too tolerant

TimEggers wrote:The best thing about this site is that the "experts" cut through the BS so well. I don't come here to chit chat and have my "barista ego" stroked. I come here to sift through to the truth and further my (thus far limited) understanding of espresso. God help us if this group ever loses the cutting edge needed to push home espresso forward....God help us if this ever changes.

Yep.

In a year on this site I have never posted anything about equipment I have not used or had direct experience. I have never made comments where I did not have experience or where I did not think I had something positive to contribute. I asked genuine questions trying to learn a new hobby and get better at it. I WELCOME criticism and opinions and frank commentary. I will not tolerate condescending replies purposely written to embarrass and make another member of the forum look and feel bad. There are a few on here with Jim being their captain who are better at this then they are at giving "expert" advice on coffee. Sorry but that is not a positive for the forum but just a small minded way to make them feel important.

GC7 wrote:It's not necessarily what you say but how you say it. I'm not going anywhere. If you don't like what I write perhaps YOU should go somewhere else or take some advice and don't act like a know it all condescending ass.

Geoffrey, I have no problem with what you post; but you seem to have a problem with how I post. So let me explain.

I am a founding member and moderator on this site; I was the same on CG. Mark likes a low stress, everyone make nice atmosphere on CG. So threads tend to be a chatty mix of personal information, opinions, speculations, with an occasional dusting of facts. That is why I resigned. This site is not like that: members here are expected to read up before posting, to clearly separate facts from opinion and speculations, and to question assumptions, and even the state of the art, if they have reason to think it is wrong. They are also expected to stay on-topic and refrain from chit-chat.

You have no obligation to call people out if they violate these posting guidelines; but as a moderator, I do. Moreover, since I don't want to see the useful information on this site drown in a sea of noise, I do it with conviction. That may make me an ass; but if you appreciate the differences between HB and CG, you should also be grateful there's a few of us asses around.

Jim

As I wrote, I have no problem with criticism. I do have a problem with the writing style you use to give it. It's unnecessarily demeaning and the worst possible method of teaching if you care about doing that here(which you should if you have something to contribute). I also don't care to be told to go somewhere else when I have done nothing different in fact then what you have been doing only with a nicer tone to it.

another_jim wrote:At $40 to $50 per pound, Esmeraldas and other coffees are available year round.

Odd, that was one of the coffee's that I tried recently. As an example, I found it too acidic and too lemony-flavoured. I completely realize that this is not a flaw in the beans, but a distinction that I personally make, and personally don't care for as much as some others obviously do. I do have to say that I was not at all upset that I wasn't completely in love with this $55 a pound coffee. The last thing I need is to discover that I'm hopelessly in love with something that will effectively triple my weekly coffee consumption costs.

The point that I was making earlier is that things are getting tough for some folk that are paying a lot more of their net worth for the same machines that some guys are getting with the extra cash they made before the dot com bubble burst, before the real estate market collapsed, or before the insurance and banking scams came back to bite them. There are quite a few working joes that some here will look upon from their ivory towers and sneer, that aren't on a quest for the perfect coffee. They just have a taste for something better than the average cuppa brewed, and are tired of forking out four bucks for super-auto-swill.
These aren't guys that want to lay theirs out on the table at machine buying time, and then run crap coffee through their machine. A lot of them are looking at dwindling checks, if not a complete lack, and trying t find a way to still enjoy their morning 'spro without giving up other habits, like eating warm food and sleeping indoors.
The suggestion that these folk are pretenders to the crown because they don't share the holy quest is kinda scary. To suggest that this is so because this site is dedicated to finding the one true bean is even scarier.
This site is dedicated to the cat, whoever he may be, that has decided to take things into his own hands and start making espresso in his domicile, and might need a bit of help, some direction, or just a buddy to chat about the trials and tribulations of that undertaking.
And if that guy comes here and wants to know if any of you guys have stumbled on an espresso blend, or a single origin, or a roaster that'll still allow him to follow the dream of espresso on tap in his very own kitchen, I think it's a little rude to suggest that he make his way back to the servants entrance with the rest of the ignorant unwashed.
It smacks of "Let them eat cake".
And it isn't very friendly.

You would have to be pretty insensitive in this economy to criticize your average Joe for trying to save some money. But, this thread was about people who can still drop several thousand on a coffee machine, but skimp on the coffee.

another_jim wrote:
I am a founding member and moderator on this site; I was the same on CG. Mark likes a low stress, everyone make nice atmosphere on CG. So threads tend to be a chatty mix of personal information, opinions, speculations, with an occasional dusting of facts. That is why I resigned. This site is not like that: members here are expected to read up before posting, [snipped].

Jim, as you know I have great respect for your tremendous expertise in all things coffee.
However, in this regard, when Mark (LaMarzooka) displayed maybe a bit less expertise than is usual here, IMO it would not have been out of line to display a link to your fine water "FAQ"...of which I've devoted maybe 2 days. Well Worth it, though.
Just my thought.

Back on topic.

Fortunately, for me I am easily pleased, as my home-roasted coffee serves me well, + the occasional $18 a # shipped espresso.

Still, one point not made here, and maybe it's another thread, but the fact a machine costs $4k does not necessarily mean that person's coffee will be any better than my Olympia Cremina, or my former Anita.
As is said here constantly, a good barista can take average gear and make excellent things happen.
Many have been seduced, here, on CG and other places for the newest, shiniest and most expensive machines, which in some case do NOTHING MORE than make it EASIER to pull consistently good shots.(I believe Marshall may have mentioned this somewhere)

Often. There seems to be so much talk about the next biggest baddest grinder and machine, and NOT about the art NOR the coffee.

If I had the money, I'd pay a good Pro roaster to roast what I want, and how and when I want it . (like the "Bespoke" thread here.)
To me, that would be the best money spent. 1 point for Malachi here.

I also try to be careful not to expose my general ignorance about much of what is discussed here, though, maybe even in this case I still do.
HB has always been my "if it's about espresso" place. I'm guessing maybe that was on Dan's/Jim's minds when this site went up.
My dear friends here, this IS a social web site, (not World of Warcraft) and coffee is a social beverage. It bothers me just a bit to see members going "mano a mano", ala alt.coffee.

I apologize for MY rant, but I get a bit unnerved when it becomes unsociable.

Interesting conversation, though some parts skirt the far edges of civility, especially those comments involving body parts which rarely see open sunlight in most cultures. With that in mind, I will lock this thread for a few days to allow a bit of reflection. Thanks for your patience, and please do have a nice weekend.

wideawake wrote:So turning this back on you Chris, if there was a perfect coffee that was $100/pound, and available in sufficient quantity, would you drink only that coffee without hesitation on the cost?

As long as I could afford it - yes.
But I thought that the Esmerelda COE (first year) was a bargain.