R.I.P. the Ristretto - Page 2

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JohnB.
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#11: Post by JohnB. »

The Ristretto shot is alive & well at my house.
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LukeFlynn
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#12: Post by LukeFlynn »

I usually only pull Ristrettos when a coffee hasn't been very well rested, and is still pretty fresh, like Red Bird.. the first week I have it, Ristrettos is all I can pull, after that it's pretty good as 1:2.

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aecletec
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#13: Post by aecletec »

#ristrettolives

With pressure profiling a long duration 1:1.5 can be done on light roasts and is damn good...

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canuckcoffeeguy
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#14: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

Alive and kicking at my place, too. I frequently pull 1:1.5 with medium and medium-dark roasts. With lighter roasts, probably not so much.

Been pulling 1:1.5 Daterra Sweet Blue all week!

But I don't have a machine with pressure profiling and fancy preinfusion. Just a good ol' E61 HX that gives those ristrettos nice body and mouthful.

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dominico
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#15: Post by dominico »

civ wrote: I don't think he asked the Italians or even the lower half of that particular country
I am an active user on two Italian coffee forums and I posted his survey, so at least some Italians saw it. However; given the low English fluency rate in Italy I can't guarantee that many were able to participate.
ds wrote:Reason is very simple for 1:2 ratio: Its the roast. The light roasts that are popular today are impossible to pull as ristretto and extract well. So its not surprise. For ristretto you need well developed or darker roast otherwise forget about it...
I both agree and disagree with this. On my pump machine there is no way I can pull a good light roast without going into lungo territory, but as I recently learned on my lever, light roasts tadte phenomenal as a super slow drippy goopy ristretto lever pull.
aecletec wrote:#ristrettolives

With pressure profiling a long duration 1:1.5 can be done on light roasts and is damn good...
+1 a colleague of mine who also has the same Zodiaco lever group as me showed me his technique for light roasts that takes over a minute to pull 1:1 to 1:1.5 ristrettos. I immediately copied his technique on my President was greatly rewarded. I've got a Costa Rica right now that tastes just like a vanilla merlot: phenomenal...
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another_jim
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#16: Post by another_jim »

Marshall wrote: ... and the similarity between home and professional baristas
That is a shock. Normales extract well in 25 to 30 seconds, whereas ristrettos take longer, so it makes sense for cafes to serve normales. I'm not sure why home baristas would want to follow the same stricture. I feel a survey coming on.
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#17: Post by Peppersass »

ds wrote:Reason is very simple for 1:2 ratio: Its the roast. The light roasts that are popular today are impossible to pull as ristretto and extract well. So its not surprise. For ristretto you need well developed or darker roast otherwise forget about it...
+1

When I first started pulling espresso at home in 2009, I almost always pulled normale because I was learning and wanted to stick to the famous Italian standard (14g dose, too.) As I gained experience and tried more coffees, I gradually upped the dose to 18g and pulled 28g of beverage. That's 64% (1:1.56), a moderately ristretto drink. I probably fell into this ratio because at the time it worked for various blends (e.g., Vivace Dolce -- a relatively dark roast) and also for somewhat lighter-roasted single-origin coffees (e.g., Terroir.)

But as both the blends and SO coffees from specialty roasters got lighter and lighter (some would say too light), my shots started tasting more and more like lemon juice. So I modified my GS/3 for pressure profiling. That helped only slightly. Later I modified the machine to do a form of flow profiling. That produced more intense shots, but didn't really solve the under-extraction problem -- no matter how fine I ground the coffee.

I believe the reason was that I was still pulling ristretto. It wasn't until I started running my shorts longer, to normale and sometimes to lungo, that my shots stated tasting more balanced. If I run the shots long with standard pressure, they're balanced but they tend to be weak. But if I grind finer, use flow profiling for long pre-infusion and a slow ramp to 9 BAR, and run the shot for 60-90 seconds until it blonds definitively (sometimes normale, sometimes lungo), the shot is balanced and the flavor pops. This approach has finally tamed light roasts for me.

Of course, this is what the Slayer is all about. Could it also be why Australia showed up as the most lungo spot in the world in James's survey?

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#18: Post by drgary »

dominico wrote:+1 a colleague of mine who also has the same Zodiaco lever group as me showed me his technique for light roasts that takes over a minute to pull 1:1 to 1:1.5 ristrettos. I immediately copied his technique on my President was greatly rewarded. I've got a Costa Rica right now that tastes just like a vanilla merlot: phenomenal...
This makes me want to revisit the ristretto on my Conti Prestina. I pulled an "angel shot" last year where I almost choked the machine and let it run long, and the essence at the bottom of that cup was fragrant, sweet and magical.
Gary
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#19: Post by Bak Ta Lo »

My favorite ristretto shot is a darker roasted Daterra Sweet Blue at 15 grams in and 20 grams out on my Cremina... very good.

I do not normally pull ristretto, my local roaster roasts pretty light and I have been consistently using their beans at 1:2 for a good balanced 32-36 gram shot, out of 18 gram doses from most of their SOE roasts.

I was lucky to get a fresh bag of St. Ali hand carried to me from Melbourne last week. This St. Ali blend was called Orthodox:
"70% Colombia Supremo Pitalito Co-operative, Huila Washed
30% Brazil Red Bourbon Fazenda Rainha, Sao Sebãstiao Pulped Natural"

It pulled really nice ristretto shots on the Strega. I was surprised to see the brew instructions on the bag recommending a dose of 20G and a shot output of 55g, wow, almost 1:3?? I tried it at the recommended levels, it is a very big double shot nice and balanced, but I prefer the stickier richer shots I was getting at 20g in and 35-40 grams out. A really caramel and chocolate shot, very good in milk.

Is that super long shot recipe a St. Ali thing, or an Aussie thing?
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OldmatefromOZ
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#20: Post by OldmatefromOZ »

Bak Ta Lo wrote:
It pulled really nice ristretto shots on the Strega. I was surprised to see the brew instructions on the bag recommending a dose of 20G and a shot output of 55g, wow, almost 1:3?? I tried it at the recommended levels, it is a very big double shot nice and balanced, but I prefer the stickier richer shots I was getting at 20g in and 35-40 grams out. A really caramel and chocolate shot, very good in milk.

Is that super long shot recipe a St. Ali thing, or an Aussie thing?
I have found some of sensory labs / St Ali recipes interesting, like you often preferring a much shorter shot than recommended.

Regarding the Aussie long shots data in general. I think its probably accurate only to the hip and trendy 3rd wave style cafes found mostly nearer to the inner areas of the major cities mentioned.

Step outside this culture and it would be a pretty safe bet that most of the (much larger) market would be significantly darker roasts pulled shorter into 98 - 99% milk drinks.