I have never paid much attention to plumbed in machines before since I didn't have one, but I've always wanted one. I'm toying with the idea now.

If I had one it would be very visible and probably on a cart in the dining room since our kitchen doesn't really have space for such a big machine or for that matter a small one. This means it would have to look good. The better it looks the better chance I have of convincing my wife such a machine is not a bad idea.

1) Does the plumbing from the drip tray have to go straight down or could it wind to the back - ie would I have to drill a hole in the top of the cart? The same question goes for the line in. (I'll probably build a cart and in case I used it for something else later I'd rather not have a hole in it, but most of all I want the plumbing to be inconspicuous).

2) how thick are the usual lines for plumbing in and out? Are there sleeves or something that they both could run through that dress them up/ make them look less obvious or is that also a bad idea?

3) I am always nervous about water bursting for lines running to dishwashers/washing machines/ ice machines. On the other hand getting water to the machine if I do not use a flojet will require running some form of pipe between the main floor and the basement ceiling (not a drop ceiling, but I don't mind a little patching). Is there a high quality pipe that you don't have to worry about ever bursting, but is easy to run through finished space? (the joist run the right way - ie parallel to the direction we want the water to run) if that is any help).

4) If I did run it with a flojet out of a bottle I'd probably build a cabinet in the cart to hide the bottle. How much height does a flojet add above the height of the bottle?

thanks for any advice!

da gino wrote:1) Does the plumbing from the drip tray have to go straight down or could it wind to the back - ie would I have to drill a hole in the top of the cart? The same question goes for the line in. (I'll probably build a cart and in case I used it for something else later I'd rather not have a hole in it, but most of all I want the plumbing to be inconspicuous).

Line in is easiest because it is under pressure, so it can run any way you want it to, as inconspicuously as possible. Drain is harder, because it needs gravity to help it drain; on my lever machine, the line is anything but inconspicuous, and because it dangles in the drain bucket I use, it sometimes doesn't have enough head of water to push its way out, so it backs up unless I lift it out of the water. I plan to remedy that sometime. Sadly, it works "well enough" for now, so doesn't get the attention it needs.

da gino wrote:2) how thick are the usual lines for plumbing in and out? Are there sleeves or something that they both could run through that dress them up/ make them look less obvious or is that also a bad idea?

Line in can be 1/4" tubing, which is what I use. Drain is tougher - the bigger, the better. There are specific guidelines on sizing and slope of drain lines.

da gino wrote:3) I am always nervous about water bursting for lines running to dishwashers/washing machines/ ice machines. On the other hand getting water to the machine if I do not use a flojet will require running some form of pipe between the main floor and the basement ceiling (not a drop ceiling, but I don't mind a little patching). Is there a high quality pipe that you don't have to worry about ever bursting, but is easy to run through finished space? (the joist run the right way - ie parallel to the direction we want the water to run) if that is any help).

With the flojet, you can just turn it off with the espresso machine when you're not using it.
plastic tubing isn't likely to be a problem - you're more likely to have problems at the fittings than along the tubing.

da gino wrote:4) If I did run it with a flojet out of a bottle I'd probably build a cabinet in the cart to hide the bottle. How much height does a flojet add above the height of the bottle?

It does add a little bit of height.

Here is what I have set up in the cart in my office:



As you can see, the flojet adds some height to the bottle; there is also a large diameter tube that goes between the control unit and the siphon unit, but then 1/4" tubing from there to the machine.

I fill the bottle with filtered water about every 2 weeks; when it's time to fill, I first dump any dregs, then put a gallon or so of water and a glug of bleach in the bottle, shake it up, let it sit 5 minutes on each side, then empty it. That keeps any funk from building up in the bottle.

The drain bucket gets dumped after every session (daily).

On my home machine, I feed it from a plumbed in line, and drain it into a bucket. 1/4" tubing is easy to run anywhere - drain lines, not so much.

My coffee setup is mounted on an antique [aka flea-market] buffet.

The La Cimbali M21's drain line is both notorious and finicky about needing some drop for the entire run. There's enough drop between the line out fitting, and the back of the buffet for the drain to function perfectly well. That's roughly a 1" drop over a 15" run.



M21 or anything else... You need drop all the way, you don't want any sort of trap. If the line doesn't back up (and it will whenever you run a lot of water through it, guaranteed), it will smell. Making sure the tubing runs down hill from the drip tray to the back of the cabinet (or stand or cart or whatever) is a matter of pulling the tubing tight and possibly using a pipe-clamp to make sure it stays that way. We drilled through the back of the buffet to hold the tubing at the appropriate level.

Fresh water is drawn from an exterior hose-bib, and through a filter system mounted to the exterior wall. Of course, we don't experience freezes here. Waste water drains directly to the side-yard; no bucket.

Call Chris Coffee (or whoever retails your machine) and ask about appropriate size fittings. If possible, use the same diameter tubing as the drip tray's outflow nipple and/or tubing. Smaller means a bottleneck, bigger don't mean squat.

At your stage of anxiety... Spend the extra $200. Get a plumber.

Plumbing in makes life much, much better. Don't lose your nerve.

Good luck,
BDL

boar_d_laze wrote:Plumbing in makes life much, much better. Don't lose your nerve.

THIS.

Part of the drain equation is where the drain tube mounts to the drip tray.

On my Vivaldi, I decided to install the drain fitting about 1/2" up on the back wall of the drip tray, which leaves most of the coffee solids in the tray. This allows a 3/8" ID drain tube with no problems. The tube has about 12" of horizontal run before hitting a elbow fitting going down through the countertop to the basement floor drain. Because any coffee solids in the drip tray are always under water and not exposed to air, there is never a problem w/ odor.

I think the smallish tubing and short horizontal run are possible mainly because of the where the tube mounts on the drip tray.

I have a plumbed in Vetrano but no "plumb out" from the drain tray. I'm not a good enough plumber to drain into the house system nor the space to have a bucket under the sink. The drip tray gets alot of coffee solids and I clean it out about every other day, the whole mess being dumped into the plethora of house plants. If the drip tray is connected to a drain, you can't easily remove it to clean it but I suppose it could be cleaned without removal. The aesthetics of a dirty never cleaned drip tray would be totally undesirable for me, and probably a health hazard.

Marvin

Thanks for all the replies. I especially like the phrase "Plumbing in makes life much, much better. Don't lose your nerve."

I think this all helps me picture what it will take and some of the options although I'd feel much better if there was water already in the house closer to where I want the machine to go.

When it comes to fittings, be aware that most espresso machines use a thread that is close to, but not quite the same as US threads. While you can often get US fittings to work, a few dollars for an adapter may save you or the next owner of your machine major headaches in the future.

Plan the drain line carefully. It really needs constant downward slope. Not much, but you don't want pools forming along the way, or even sludge to be able to settle out, rather than "wash clean" along the length.

iginfect wrote:If the drip tray is connected to a drain, you can't easily remove it to clean it but I suppose it could be cleaned without removal. The aesthetics of a dirty never cleaned drip tray would be totally undesirable for me, and probably a health hazard.

Marvin

The tube coming off my drip tray is about 18" long, and connects to a barbed fitting. When I want to clean my drip tray, it's as simple as reaching behind my knock box and pulling the tube off of that fitting. Why then would you say "you can't easily remove it to clean it..."?

Nobody would want a 'never cleaned' drip tray. Of course not. The fact remains, if there is enough water in the tray to cover the coffee solids they will neither give off odor, nor be a health hazard.

Let me add my voice to the chorus of people recommending that you plumb-in. You won't regret it. It definitely makes life better.

If you're concerned about the drain, just skip it for now and plumb in the water intake. That's easier to do and pays the biggest dividends. You can always plumb-in the drain later if it becomes too burdensome to manually empty the drain box.

Initially I skipped plumbing in the drain because while I was confident in my ability to tap into the house water supply either by cutting a pipe and sweating in a tee or by using a simple needle valve (commonly used to feed cold water to a refrigerator), I wasn't so confident in my ability to tap into the "stink pipe". The consequences of a mistake doing the latter are much more unpleasant! If you have the good sense to hire a plumber, however, this shouldn't be a concern.

After a few months of emptying the drain box, I started eying that project. I found a sneaky way to tap into the waste pipe and went for it. I've never looked back. It's a pleasure to have what is basically a built-in sink in the espresso machine. I've not had any issues with cleaning the drain box, either. Once a week, after I do a detergent backflush, I run the brew cycle for its programmed limit of 50 seconds, producing about 400ml of hot water. I remove the drip tray, wash it with soap, then dump half of the water into the drain box. Then I swipe out the drain box with a paper tower. Then I dump the rest of the water into the drain box. I haven't had any issues with coffee buildup or coffee smell coming from the drain box. If I did, I'd just sprinkle some soap into the drain box before I hit it with hot water.

I have lots of pictures of my plumb-on project and one of these days I'll do a How-To post.