New coffee enthusiast looking for a "next step"

#1: Post by **Tzatziki** » October 28th, 2012, 9:04 pm

Several months ago, while I was in Portland, I was bitten by the coffee bug. I am now obsessed. A quick glance through these forums suggests that I am not alone, and also not very far along the path to coffee obsession! I'm curious what the next step is, if I want to learn more about - and enjoy - great coffee.

At home, I currently use a modded Hario Mini-Mill Slim to grind for Aeropress (with a metal filter) or French press. I know that I prefer SO espresso to pourovers/AP/FP, so *EVENTUALLY* I'd like to get a good home espresso setup. I can't afford that yet, though - I'm willing to spend maybe $300 on equipment, but I'm under the impression that it takes at least $600 to make home-espresso worthwhile.

What I've been playing around with so far:

- Varying brew parameters to find my favorite for AP/FP
- AP vs French Press vs Drip of the same coffee
- Horizontal between processes (a washed vs a natural Amaro Gayo from the same roaster)
- Cupping different origins (e.g. an Ethiopian, a Colombian, and a Sumatran) in the same session

So far, I've come to the conclusion that I prefer the coffees that have the most non-"traditional coffee" flavors (some helpful baristas tell me this is the lightness of roast?). As far as origin, I'm heavily biased towards super-fruity natural process coffees. Thus far my favorite three coffee experiences have been Coava's Kilenso (far and away my favorite of everything I've ever had), Bird Rock's Don Pachi natural Geisha, and Compass' Natural Yirgacheffe.

So:

- Is it worth getting a nice grinder (a refurb Vario or something) at this point, with the expectation that I'll use it for espresso in a year or so when I can afford a nice machine? Will the quality of my AP brews (my go-to method at the moment) improve enough to make it worth the early purchase?

- Should I play around with roasting? Is the light, origin-centric flavor profile something that home roasters can duplicate, and if so, is it worth the cost and effort given the brewing equipment and the experience I currently have?

- Is there something else entirely I should purchase with that budget (~$300)? If not, what are some other interesting tasting experiences that I can pull off with just what I have right now? I intend to keep tasting new coffees - there are so many, after all - but are there any other structured things I can experience, rather than just tasting 2-3 random coffees side by side? Other than somehow getting my hands on two different roast profiles of the same bean, I can't think of any.

#2: Post by **drgary** » October 29th, 2012, 1:34 am

Nick:

Welcome to Home-Barista! I'm glad to read that you're zeroing in on great coffees and how they are brewed. This isn't a quick journey, so maybe count on learning as you go with whatever you try next.

Looking at your preference for coffees, perhaps you could start also getting acquainted with fine coffees that have many subtle flavors but taste mostly like coffee. A good start to get educated is this page:

http://coffeecuppers.com/Tasting-Primer.htm

If you're learning coffees already with good and simple brew methods you're ahead of those who become obsessed with gear early. But since you are asking about gear, you can get a MyPressi Twist and make real espresso for $118.

Mypressi TWIST v2 - reconditioned and updated

You can also acquire quality items faster if you educate yourself about what you might like to try and watch your local Craigslist. If you find something promising read servicing and restoration threads. Some machines have good parts availability, others don't. If you're open to this, look at lever machines as well as pump machines. Read the FAQs about these so you know what you're looking at if a deal appears.

I found a Mazzer Super Jolly earlier this year for $200, tore it down and cleaned it, changed the burrs, repainted it and replaced the doser. It looks like new. I happened to have a spare doser and burr set, which made it cheaper. But if I'd just cleaned and repainted and changed the burrs, the bent doser was still working. Here's what it looked like when I brought it home:

And after restoration in my office, next to a La Pavoni Europiccola I bought within your budget:

You can find used Gaggia pump machines and used La Pavonis for a bargain. And you never know what you might stumble across. I never expected to find this Lady Duchessa inexpensively. I had never heard of it actually:

Or this Isomac Amica that replaced a cheap Saeco machine. The Amica is an E61 single boiler dual use (SBDU) machine that makes wonderful shots and is slow to heat for steaming (see if you can find an HX or heat exchanger machine), but it was a real bargain, makes great espresso and had never been used to brew a shot.

As far as roasting goes, the Sweet Maria's website has a good selection, and some of the small hot air roasters are inexpensive new, but they'll make a small quantity of roasted beans. Or you can roll up your sleeves and do something like this:

How to Modify a Bread Machine for Home Roasting?

Or this:

Making Your Own 57 Ounce Roaster [Updated Again]

Temperature measurement is a must and there's lots of info on that in the Roasting forum.

Again, welcome!

October 31st, 2012, 7:47 pm

Thank you so much for the links! I would imagine that the Mazzer you linked has considerably more consistent grind than, say, a refurb Preciso? Would I be able to use it for other grinds (FP, AP, etc.)?

#4: Post by **drgary** » October 31st, 2012, 8:59 pm

Yes, the Super Jolly (SJ) is a more capable grinder, and I have used it sometimes for coarser grinding. The main thing I'm suggesting is you'll get higher end equipment if you shop the used market. So the best answer will be what you find and then look it up in the Grinder forum.

The SJ has an easy and continuous (stepless) adjustment ring at the top. It was well reviewed in the Titan Grinder Project thread.

There are also hand grinders with good versatility. Here are the two offerings by Orphan Espresso, their Pharos (with Voodoodaddy mods) and their LIDO. The stock Pharos is $245 and the LIDO is $165. Pharos has the gold standard grind quality, with the same burrs as a Compak K10 titan coffee house grinder. But there are many others that will work, some of them cheaper. The Pharos is at its best with espresso but is very good for coarser grinds. The reverse is true for the LIDO. The Pharos mods I've bought add about $200 to the cost.

November 1st, 2012, 2:32 am

Sounds like one of your main goals is to learn as much as you can about coffee. That being the case, you absolutely should play with roasting. How a given coffee tastes is heavily shaped by the individual doing the roasting. Even two light roasts brought to the same temperature can be very different depending on how the roaster got there. As already mentioned, the Sweet Maria's website is a good place to start.

#6: Post by **drgary** » November 1st, 2012, 2:55 am

#7: Post by **jonny** » November 1st, 2012, 2:56 am

If you are into Coava, they brew pour overs with the Able Brewing Kone. They grind their coffee for the kone using a conical espresso grinder. It works very well for the Kone (since they grind pretty finely) and the coffee they roast. It just so happens that the Pharos uses a very similar burr as the grinders Coava uses. I have produced some excellent Kone brews with the pharos along with some excellent espressos! I also have a Mazzer Super Jolly which works amazingly for espresso but neither the Pharos nor Super Jolly make exceptional coarse grinders. They definitely make good coffee, but not up to par with commercial batch grinders used for french press and pour over. I think either will make delicious aeropress for sure especially if you grind finer and extract quicker since that's what they are designed to do for espresso.
As Gary did mention, if you know what to look for in the used market, and with a little bit of luck, you can definitely get your feet wet in the espresso realm in your budget. Gaggia, Saeco, La Pavoni... all can be had for less than $200 and sometimes (specifically Saeco machines which aren't bad with a simple mod) as low as $30

EDIT: roasting is good to get into if you have the time, patience, and desire. You will not easily duplicate what you've tasted at places like Coava, especially since roasting to a light level is not as fool proof as "darker" roasts. Many coffees can come out tasting like lemon juice or rawhide. It will even be more difficult if you use beginner methods like a frying pan or popcorn popper. You'd probably want to start with something like Behmor or Hottop. But just wanting to give it a try is really all it takes. Well, and some money, obviously

#8: Post by **drgary** » November 1st, 2012, 3:03 am

I would be a little cautious about what Saeco machine to get. When I first tried to get my espresso thing going I got a Saeco Magic Cappuccino Plus. I did a mod jonny may be referring to, which was to strip the pressure valve in the portafilter. But that Saeco wasn't easy to control for temperature and when I tried to update that with an inexpensive computer controller (aka PID) they weren't available for that machine. Jim Schulman and others talked me out of the Saeco, happily. But I was very fortunate to score a working La Pavoni for almost nothing. The guy was putting his house on the market the next day and wanted it off the counter. After I sold the grinder the machine and other accessories cost me $10. And if you're taking a closer look at that grinder, don't get a Bodum. You'll want something better given what you've already written.

#9: Post by **jonny** » November 1st, 2012, 3:12 am

drgary wrote:I would be a little cautious about what Saeco machine to get. When I first tried to get my espresso thing going I got a Saeco Magic Cappuccino Plus. I did a mod jonny may be referring to, which was to strip the pressure valve in the portafilter. But that Saeco wasn't easy to control for temperature and when I tried to update that with an inexpensive computer controller (aka PID) they weren't available for that machine. Jim Schulman and others talked me out of the Saeco, happily. But I was very fortunate to score a La Pavoni for almost nothing. The guy was putting his house on the market the next day and wanted it off the counter. After I sold the grinder the machine and other accessories cost me $10.

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True, but I have used a Saeco Via Venezia (aka Starbucks Barista) and it really was not a bad machine especially on a super tight budget where a grinder must also be considered. Temperature was tricky, but I don't think it was any worse than other low end single boilers like Gaggia or even Silvia. The main differences here is stoutness. I wish I would have bought either a Gaggia or a Saeco instead of the machine I started with! I started with a Mr. Coffee pump machine, and that thing was just the pits! I managed some decent shots once in a while but it was just all around bad. I paid $80 at Target. I wish I knew to look at Craigslist.

EDIT: I don't think the learning curve of temperature surfing a single boiler machine is any steeper than temperature management on La Pavoni. I know you will probably disagree, Gary.

November 7th, 2012, 1:54 pm

As others suggested, look for a used Mazzer or something commercial and hold off on a machine. I have a thing for vintage levers, which are often cheap. The europiccola is a good choice but my personal experience with it led me to open kettle machines for temperature reasons. The machine I use now is a la peppina termomattica, a rare find but still only around $200. My other la peppinas were around $140 on eBay Italy. Levers have a learning curve to them that some consider steeper, though when I imagine using an HX machine, that sounds much harder to me. Machines, as well as grinders are highly personal, but if budget is a concern, used commercial grinders and ebay machines are your best bet.