We've had the kitchen out for over a week now, and there's only space for one espresso machine in the make-shift cookery in the laundry. So I boxed up the Sama and I've been using a Francis X1 for 10 days. Now I remember why I love lever espresso so much.

Its not that the X1 is a bad machine - in fact, with the simplest of routines it's capable of very repeatable results and great pump espresso. But that's the problem - it's pump espresso.

After using levers more or less exclusively for five years, one's preference drifts away from 2-oz cups of crema, towards the more balanced, less gaseous taste experience offered by the lever. It's come to the point now that I can barely see what there is to pump espresso. Maybe someone can enlighten me here - when I get the Sama unpacked and go back to the lever, what will I be missing?

PC

Jack,
please tell me that you aren't comparing lever espresso to Francis-Francis espresso.
If you like to make pump to lever espresso comparison, do it on equal basis. It's not - as you said - that the X1 is a bad machine; the thing is that home levers in experienced hands are making top-quality shots while the X1 certainly is not capable of it.
If you compare a quality pump machine shots to your lever espressi I bet what you're missing will come clear to you.
For me the conclusion is that each machine has somewhat unique taste profile, and for the pump vs lever machines that I had a chance to compare, the main taste difference is something like line-thickness in a pencil-drawn picture. It's a metaphore of course, and there is more like some nuances etc. but that is also different from lever to lever so as a gross overall statement that should work.

Lever vs. pump, I like it, bring it on!

But there are issues: which lever vs which pump? What basket diameter? And, of course, for which coffee?

If we're debating the resulting cup, I doubt the difference is caused by the pressure delivery mechanism (i.e. spring/hand vs pump), rather it is about the pressure and temp extraction profiles. Don't most levers have declining brew pressure & temp profiles?

So the the question becomes: does a declining pressure/temp profile produce a better cup? The answer is: better for who and for what bean?

Personally, I enjoy both and I will get a Speedster only once pressure profiling is an option on it. Alternatively, I could get a Mirage Idrocompresso only once pressure profiling is an option on it. See, it's not about the machine

peacecup wrote: Maybe someone can enlighten me here - when I get the Sama unpacked and go back to the lever, what will I be missing?

PC

Variety; versatility; choices.

I use my Export for about 4 months of the year, and now I use an Elektra Semi for the remaining months. IMO the Elektra delivers cleaner and clearer flavours by a large margin over the Export. It also allows some choices between cool and hot; the basket is much easier to dose at different levels with equal success; and I can make coffee for more than two people effortlessly compared to the Export.

I love my Export, but I am fairly consistent with using 14gm in the basket, producing ristretto-ish shots that conform the whatever temp the machine produces after being on for 15 minutes at its current p-stat setting. That also means that I only drink coffees that taste good when made that way. The group head is also quite difficult to keep clean.

The PV has a lot of strengths, many of which lie in its small footprint (physically and in terms of energy consumption), simplicity, and ability to drain and refill the boiler every day. But those are all just my preferences.

Mark

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'm asking this question at the most basic level. I realize there are differences among levers as well as among pump machines. I knew of course that the X1 would be said to be inferior, but I maintain it is capable of making espresso characteristic of pump machines. And I'm mainly comparing it to a home spring lever, the Sama. But of course I drink espresso at cafes whenever possible, and some very good ones, and these observations seem to hold.

So, to me, the mean comparison is this: Pump machines pour shots that are more or less 100% crema in the cup, settling out to a very thick layer if one waits long enough. Somehow I taste a distinct difference between these layers, unless I drink it immediately, in which case it tastes foamy. I find the coffee under the crema somehow thinner and less appealing than lever espresso.

Lever machines pour less crema, but the whole cup seems to be more integrated, have more mouthfeel. etc.

PC

peacecup wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I think I'm asking this question at the most basic level. I realize there are differences among levers as well as among pump machines. I knew of course that the X1 would be said to be inferior, but I maintain it is capable of making espresso characteristic of pump machines.
PC

It is not capable of making espresso characteristic of good pump machines so it is difficult to engage the comparison. There is a difference between pump and lever. But I would like to see you making a comparison with something at least a competent as a Bezzera BZ07. There are enough temperature and other flaws with the Francis that the impressions gained have little validity. Certainly it is not characteristic of a good pump shot. Not to mention the fact that the profiles of different pump machines themselves are different. The Slayer shot I had in SF, for example, had some lever characteristic to it unless I was just projecting.

peacecup wrote:Pump machines pour shots that are more or less 100% crema in the cup, settling out to a very thick layer if one waits long enough.

I understand you take great pride in being a lever user/owner and find them vastly superior to all other machines (same as most lever users), but the above statement is a product of the machine you used and the fact that you haven't used any pump machine for 5 years. The pump machine in your comparison is nothing more than a straw man.

peacecup wrote:It's come to the point now that I can barely see what there is to pump espresso. Maybe someone can enlighten me here - when I get the Sama unpacked and go back to the lever, what will I be missing?

Levers vs. pump machines is clearly a matter of personal preference. Ditto for hand vs. electric grinders. You prefer levers and hand grinders. I prefer pump machines and the biggest, baddest electric grinder I can fit in my kitchen. End of the day, we both love espresso... and starting a thread about whose preference is "better" seems kinda trollish to me. Nobody wins this kind of argument.

And the next time you make cappuccinos for a dinner party of six with your Sama and Kyocera hand grinder, please post a video.

hperry wrote:It is not capable of making espresso characteristic of good pump machines so it is difficult to engage the comparison. There is a difference between pump and lever. But I would like to see you making a comparison with something at least a competent as a Bezzera BZ07. There are enough temperature and other flaws with the Francis that the impressions gained have little validity.

+1 with all my heart. And I know what I'm talking about, I had almost thrown a Saeco out the window.

RapidCofee wrote:And the next time you make cappuccinos for a dinner party of six with your Sama and Kyocera hand grinder, please post a video.

Yay! Big +1.
I was making once coffee for two (myself and a friend) and I took a photo... next morning another friend joined us and I would happily make a bunch of photos instead of grinding and pulling...

Cappuccinos after a dinner party?