Counter space:
High enough that I can put some legs back onto my Elektra T1, (fixing my current 16.5" clearance).

Electrical:
Dedicated 120v 20Amp home run for my Elektra T1 and my Baratza Vario grinder.

Water:
Under the sink I have a softener/filter/carbon setup and I used JG to the fridge and for my Elektra. However it's not really "built in". During our upcoming kitchen remodel, I think I'll run the lines in the walls.

Under the sink, I'll keep using my softener/filter setup. I'll then distribute it to the following:
1. fridge - 1/4" copper
2. steam assisted oven - 1/4" copper
3. Elektra - 3/8" copper

The location of the espresso machine is a compromise and will be over top the oven. This isn't ideal, but better than any other location in our limited space. Also, if we ever move, I'm taking my Elektra with me, so if I can make the counter area not have obvious holes in it, that would be a bonus with my wife.

I'm also not certain that running the waste water and water supply from a hole in the counter is the best idea as ovens get really hot. Instead, I'm thinking of running them through the back splash area. I can then get the granite guys to make a small granite plug that could be epoxied into place in the future if I was ever to sell the house.

Q1. What do you guys think about this idea of drain/water supply from the back splash?

I'm guessing since these are in the wall, 3/8" copper for the water supply would be best.

Q2. What kind of connector at the end if I put in into the wall?
Q3. Are there recessed on/off connectors?

For the drain, going through the back splash certainly isn't ideal, but I think it would work OK with 1/2" copper pipe.

The dishwasher drain going into a pipe on the garbage disposal system. I think I could just put in a plastic T and feed the espresso drain water into this.

Q4. Is this correct?

If you have ideas or appropriate pictures that would be great.

Mark

Well I guess this depends on how far you want to go with this. The setup I currently have has a remote pump down in the basement which feeds water up through the floor to the machine. If you are doing a complete remodel then I would bury the lines behind the wall now. I ran a large piece of pvc that I strapped to a stud in the wall and ran my electrical/feed/discharge lines down through the pipe. If I ever need to remove it I can just pull them right up through the pipe and since the lines enter the wall just on top of the counter top it would be easy to patch the wall and nobody would know anything was ever there. I used 3/8 john guest tubing for my supply/discharge lines as I wanted the flexibility to easily remove the tubing if needed but also if you need to change fittings for a different machine copper is not easily modified in that location where as tubing you can just pop off the fitting and put on a new one.

As far as the oven goes I can't imagine there would be any problem with it since lines would be buried behind the drywall and inside the pvc if you choose that option and the fact that ovens today are very well insulated on the sides and back that I can't imagine you would encounter any problems but, I would contact the manufacterer of the oven you are choosing and pose the question to them.

I will be talking to the plumber tomorrow about the drain issue. The biggest concern will be getting the water to run from the drip tray to the back splash. I was trying to find a hand pump of some sort to allow me to drain the drip tray as needed, but haven't come up with one yet.

I was trying to find a hand pump of some sort to allow me to drain the drip tray as needed, but haven't come up with one yet.

I have used a siphon pump to drain the boiler or other tank with great results, and they sell them at most hardware stores for a few dollars (even places such as Harbor Freight sell them). There are usually two lengths of flexible tubing with a squeeze bulb or some other device between them to pump the water. Not sure how ideal that would be, but it might work if nothing else will in your situation.

sweaner wrote:I will be talking to the plumber tomorrow about the drain issue. The biggest concern will be getting the water to run from the drip tray to the back splash. I was trying to find a hand pump of some sort to allow me to drain the drip tray as needed, but haven't come up with one yet.

I don't think you'd need a pump if the waste line is always lower than the bottom of the drip tray. I only have to go about 7' so I'm pretty confident I can slope the waste water return appropriately.

Mark

mhoy wrote:I don't think you'd need a pump if the waste line is always lower than the bottom of the drip tray. I only have to go about 7' so I'm pretty confident I can slope the waste water return appropriately.

Two things:
1) with 7' of 1/2" copper pipe, how do you plan on cleaning it when it gets blocked?
2) 7' is way to long to go without a trap... the grunge on the inside of the pipe will start to decompose and pretty soon you will be getting whiffs of rotting coffee while you are making your espresso.

I guess I'm lucky that my wife doesn't have a problem with me putting a hole through the counter top; she thinks that having a dedicated "coffee station" in the kitchen would look good on the "for sale" listing. Also fortunate is that our kitchen has a nice little spot that will be ideal, so it won't even be a major renovation.

Bluegrod wrote:Well I guess this depends on how far you want to go with this. The setup I currently have has a remote pump down in the basement which feeds water up through the floor to the machine.

This is what I'm thinking about doing in my new house... Is there a feasible limit in the distance between the pump and the machine? I could easily put it in the cabinet under the machine, but the filters and such will be below that cabinet in the basement, so I might as well put the pump there, too.

What I'm worried about is that even though the water won't compress, the pipe going from the pump to the machine will expand when the pump turns on and when resistance is encountered, possibly impacting something adversely.

That and I'm not sure if I could find a braided hose long enough to go the 15' or so it'd need to run - and I'm not sure if I'm keen on using Guest connections with plastic tubing inbetween.

I don't think you'd want to do a braided hose all the way. Probably the best way to outboard the pump that far would be to use copper pipe for most of the run. Make sure everything is rated for 200 psi+, because the flex in the system will often mean that the pressure on the line will jump to 12 bars (or whatever your relief valve is set at) after brewing.

I still wouldn't do it. I want my pump where I can hear it, even though I want it really quiet. A quiet pump will let you know when something's wrong. A totally isolated pump won't give you that luxury till it's probably too late.

Mark,
You can view my setup here:
Post a pic of your home espresso setup...

My pics are half way down the page and at the very end
If you have any questions please let me know and I can go over with you what was done.

As far as your concerns are with the tubing issue I know of no instances of tube expansion with the john guest tubing or watts tubing for that matter. I can also tell you from my personal experience that I have never had a problem with these types of fittings once they are properly set. They are a very reliable and when running tubing behind wall you would want to keep solid tubing buried and use fittings at the ends where they can be checked. As far as the drain goes if you decide to go through the counter top send me a PM as I may have a solution for you.

Well, the plumber put in the copper supply line and a plastic drain line today. If the drain fails I can certainly live with that. We will see if it flows. I hope I don't get any rotting coffee smell.