Is espresso not supposed to taste bitter? - Page 3
- nixter
- Posts: 785
- Joined: 16 years ago
I think the bitterness is part of the taste 99.9% of the time. You get used to it and begin to taste around the bitterness and even like it. I can only think of one shot I've ever had that did not have a hint of bitterness. Intelli in Venice. One time only. Subsequent trips there were good but never matched that one shot. Perhaps that is what is known as the god shot, I don't know. I live in Vancouver which has some great cafes but no shot has ever equaled that one experience in Venice.
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- Posts: 46
- Joined: 13 years ago
Ive always struggled with drinking straight espresso due to the bitterness element. One 'trick' I've found that works for me is to not put the first drips of the espresso pour into the cup, but rather wait until just before it starts to form a stream. I find that the first part of the pour contributes too many harsh flavours that hide the florals in the coffee I drink. This may be sacrosanct to 'real' espresso drinkers but it works for me and I'm able to really savor the espresso without getting that physical shudder.
- HB
- Admin
- Posts: 21983
- Joined: 19 years ago
It's a common technique for saving an otherwise overextracted espresso:Bryce wrote:This may be sacrosanct to 'real' espresso drinkers but it works for me and I'm able to really savor the espresso without getting that physical shudder.
See the referenced page above for potential causes and [better] solutions.Diagnosis of Extraction Problems wrote:Start dump: initial few seconds of flow out of the portafilter, which is black and without crema, is allowed to go into the drip tray. The cup is inserted only as the flow gets brown and foamy.
Dan Kehn
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- Posts: 49
- Joined: 13 years ago
After studying the pages on HB here, I took some beans of mine that I knew were roasted far too fast and too far, to see how they compared with those at the local coffee shop. We ground mine with my Deines and pulled (pushed a button ) a double. But it wouldn't give a double and quit early. The taste was very bitter. The crema was a bit thin and I could see it dissipating. Okay, not a good. The aroma was okay. The taste? Bitter. Too bitter
Then the owner pulled a shot with their grounds. I watched closely to see the colors change from dark to a dark golden and then blond. But the blond lasted about 2-3 seconds. I was thinking the shot should have ended as soon as the blond started coming out. That's right, isn't it? But she has experience and I'm a newbie, so I said nothing. The crema set well and lasted. The aroma was nice. The taste was interesting. I finally got a taste of the fruitiness I hear about. But it was also a bit sour. Is this from letting it run too long?
I was excited for three reasons. One, I recognized the stages of the shot for the first time. Two, I was able to identify tastes in the shot and got an idea of something to shoot for. But number three was a big surprise. I hope it works out well. The owner told me she has a machine she can give me that will pull shots, but apparently blows the breaker if you try to steam milk. I can live with that. And, maybe I can fix it. With my budget, I figured I wouldn't have a machine for a long time, so this is a real blessing. I'll let you know the model when I get it. Of course, I'll probably have a bazillion questions too.
The learning curve steepens.
Then the owner pulled a shot with their grounds. I watched closely to see the colors change from dark to a dark golden and then blond. But the blond lasted about 2-3 seconds. I was thinking the shot should have ended as soon as the blond started coming out. That's right, isn't it? But she has experience and I'm a newbie, so I said nothing. The crema set well and lasted. The aroma was nice. The taste was interesting. I finally got a taste of the fruitiness I hear about. But it was also a bit sour. Is this from letting it run too long?
I was excited for three reasons. One, I recognized the stages of the shot for the first time. Two, I was able to identify tastes in the shot and got an idea of something to shoot for. But number three was a big surprise. I hope it works out well. The owner told me she has a machine she can give me that will pull shots, but apparently blows the breaker if you try to steam milk. I can live with that. And, maybe I can fix it. With my budget, I figured I wouldn't have a machine for a long time, so this is a real blessing. I'll let you know the model when I get it. Of course, I'll probably have a bazillion questions too.
The learning curve steepens.
- Spitz.me
- Posts: 1960
- Joined: 14 years ago
Depends what you mean by 'bitter'... Bitterness is inherent in the flavour of coffee in general, to what degree and for what reason are you tasting bitterness is the real question.
Over-roasted, oily junk will taste bold as f$%k and bitter beyond belief... it's essentially a black hole for sugar and cream.
However, bitterness from fresh coffee prepared either espresso or any other way, is part of the flavour that you're enjoying. This kind of bitterness doesn't leave your mouth feeling like you just licked a dirty rag.
The problem is ultimately that people read and hear about all these deliciously crazy flavours they find in the cup that are really just the essences of what reminds people of other flavours occurring in the coffee. Sweet is used more times than anyone can count at this point, yet nothing is actually 'sugar sweet'.
You have to be able to appreciate dark, bitter drinks like stouts and coffee. Something I wouldn't necessarily describe as bitter will make a non-espresso drinker wince like they've been shot. OR someone who doesn't drink stouts or even dark beers for that matter, could not tolerate their bitterness.
You acquire the taste for espresso; have lots of GREAT, FRESH, WELL-PREPARED espresso and understand it to the point where you only truly use the word 'bitter' to describe something horrible, like when something goes wrong with the shot you're pulling or your beans have begun to go stale.
Over-roasted, oily junk will taste bold as f$%k and bitter beyond belief... it's essentially a black hole for sugar and cream.
However, bitterness from fresh coffee prepared either espresso or any other way, is part of the flavour that you're enjoying. This kind of bitterness doesn't leave your mouth feeling like you just licked a dirty rag.
The problem is ultimately that people read and hear about all these deliciously crazy flavours they find in the cup that are really just the essences of what reminds people of other flavours occurring in the coffee. Sweet is used more times than anyone can count at this point, yet nothing is actually 'sugar sweet'.
You have to be able to appreciate dark, bitter drinks like stouts and coffee. Something I wouldn't necessarily describe as bitter will make a non-espresso drinker wince like they've been shot. OR someone who doesn't drink stouts or even dark beers for that matter, could not tolerate their bitterness.
You acquire the taste for espresso; have lots of GREAT, FRESH, WELL-PREPARED espresso and understand it to the point where you only truly use the word 'bitter' to describe something horrible, like when something goes wrong with the shot you're pulling or your beans have begun to go stale.
LMWDP #670
- aecletec
- Posts: 1997
- Joined: 13 years ago
Only if you want to drink bitter espresso.Spitz.me wrote:You have to be able to appreciate dark, bitter drinks like stouts and coffee.
- Spitz.me
- Posts: 1960
- Joined: 14 years ago
Ya, what I meant was I love disgustingly stale and 'bitter' espresso because I've acquired a taste for it... That's exactly what I meant...
Weird, I can't even see my point from here...
Sorry... but your counter-argument to my statement was?... Espresso is NOT bitter?
Weird, I can't even see my point from here...
Sorry... but your counter-argument to my statement was?... Espresso is NOT bitter?
LMWDP #670
- aecletec
- Posts: 1997
- Joined: 13 years ago
No, I've introduced espresso to people who are not accustomed to it, thing was it's wasn't overly bitter.
Of course there are bitter flavour molecules in it, but on the whole the espresso I like is not bitter, but sweet overall.
Of course there are bitter flavour molecules in it, but on the whole the espresso I like is not bitter, but sweet overall.
- Spitz.me
- Posts: 1960
- Joined: 14 years ago
I'm not going to get into semantics or say much else other than that - SWEET in the espresso LORE is not the same sweetness someone WOULD expect.
There are also gateways to espresso love (and vice versa) - like having an appreciation for wine and other complex tasting beverages where flavours are discerned, unlike orange juice that tastes like oranges.
There are also gateways to espresso love (and vice versa) - like having an appreciation for wine and other complex tasting beverages where flavours are discerned, unlike orange juice that tastes like oranges.
LMWDP #670
- nixter
- Posts: 785
- Joined: 16 years ago
Agreed. I'm dating a girl currently who I introduced to espresso on the weekend. We were at what I would consider the 2nd best cafe in town. Had a sip first to make sure the shot was pleasing. It was. She took a sip and it was all she could do not to spit it out. The wincing on her face said bitter even though this was by all means a good shot. Oh well.