another_jim wrote:When I made the remark about choosing tampers by feel; I had no intention of criticizing anybody. If I came across as critical, I apologize.

Hi Jim,

You have so much credibility, you need never apologize!

Didn't think you were critical, just wanted to clarify why we didn't expound on shot quality.

I was hoping by now that one of the tamper makers would have contacted me with an offer to try the 625 tampers. Perhaps they need to know my baskets are 58.5mm . I'll need to know to what precision they'll need the dimensions of my group

another_jim wrote:I had no intention of criticizing anybody. If I came across as critical, I apologize.

Not at all.

I always considered the piston shape to be personal preference and of little significance. I have always gotten flat pistons for flat shower screens and convex for convex shower screens. This was the first time I have had such a variety and was somewhat shocked at the results. However my machine, with its off the scale water debit, is incredibly finicky and unforgiving. My results were not as dramatic in my Isomac, but I THINK there was a difference in the shot.

Tamping is less important than the grind and distribution but still affects the end product IMHO. I have had good shots from people that used gorilla tamps and people that use next to no tamp. It will be interesting to see if others have the same observations as I.

cannonfodder wrote:Tamping is less important than the grind and distribution but still affects the end product IMHO.

I concur.



The hard part is convincing oneself that it is not a spiral

another_jim wrote:When I made the remark about choosing tampers by feel; I had no intention of criticizing anybody. If I came across as critical, I apologize.

Think of me as the tamper-martian; I don't get it. Tamping has never been an important part of my espresso prep, and I'm reading the reviews to find out what's important and what isn't. Since I'm skeptical how much difference tamper configurations or tamping styles have on shot quality (although Cannonfodder's remarks are worth a following up); I'm perfectly happy to hear people discuss them in terms of comfort. That has enough contact with my experience to actually get me mildly interested in buying new ones.

... and I'd like one in polished chrome that fits my hand like an old loafer

Jim,

I am really surprised that tamping has "never been an important part of [your] espresso prep". In this you remind me of Sam Pati the owner of La Prima, Pittsburgh. He sort of pooh poohs my mention of tamping as an important step in espresso preparation. I hope to "nudge" him tomorrow (Saturday) after La Prima's first ever "Roaster Tour & Coffee Class" where I will take the RS (& keep it in my car until after the participants have left).


Len

I took inventory of the RS case and confirmed that all was present.



The next thing I did was to feel each tamper and tamp onto a kitchen towel (as Dave/Cannonfodder did - except that I used a girly-man towel while Dave just used the counter). Here are some pictures of that.




It is nice that HB included some extra baskets and pistons. One problem is that the piston on the Lava Import has the stud stuck thereto (while it seems to be in the handle of all the other tampers). Ergo, it will not be possible to try this piston with any other handles. This is not a big problem since there are other EP pistons in the case.

Let me get my preconceptions out of the way. It is assumed that we ALL have preconceptions; it is just that some of you don't realize their presence.

C. S. Lewis said: "Five senses; an incurably abstract intellect; a haphazardly selective memory; a set of preconceptions and assumptions so numerous that I can never examine more than minority of them - never become conscious of them all. How much of total reality can such an apparatus let through?" Indeed!

A preconception is simply a perception or opinion formed beforehand; a bias. Look, I am 53 years old and have been highly opinionated for at least 50 of those years. Unlike many, I have learned to "listen" to my preconceptions...at least until I have hard or other evidence by which to judge. My preconceptions of the Road Show tampers were as follows.
1. The Pullman, Torr, Coffee Lab & Espresso Craft tampers would be really well made.
2. The EPNW tampers would be of merely "serviceable".
3. The Bumper tamper would be poorly made.
4. The Clicker tamper would be a "toy".
5. The La Forza & Thor tampers would woo me with their craftsmanship though Thor would be too light.
6. The two Reg Barber tampers would be an enigma.

Now, faced with the cold reality of the RS in front of me, only numbers 1 & 6 hold true.

The Pullman, Torr, Coffee Lab & Espresso Craft tampers are indeed very well made, but so are the EPNW and (surprise, surprise) the Bumper. In fact, of the whole kit I am most impressed by the dashing of my preconception that the Bumper in my hand has made. The pictures of the Bumper have always seemed to me to show too boldly the mold seam in the middle of the rubber handle. The reality is that the seam is there and is easily overlooked as the patina of production. The feel of the Bumper is definitely of quality and the weight is surprisingly heavy.

The EPNW made tampers are all of pretty good quality and, unlike some of the pricier tampers herein, use man-made materials for the handles. It is quite possible to make a really good espresso with any of the EPNW tampers. The Clicker is a serious tamper and has a good feel for both tamping and polishing.

The La Forza & Thor are nice and exude craftsmanship...but I find that in the flesh, I have no more appreciation for them than the other tampers in the RS. The Thor is anything but "too light" being one of the heavier tampers in the RS.

As for Reg Barber, I still don't get "it"...but please allow me to continue my "search".

Len

The XS looks just about right. It also looks like a straight sided piston instead of the beveled piston in the kit.

You would be surprised how hard some wood waxes are. My father is a wood worker and I play with it on occasion. A good tight grain wood sanded with some 600grit, then some 0000 steel wool takes on a glass smooth and hard finish. The natural wood oils also give it a shellac appearance depending on the wood.

I put some new Red Oak base boards in the living room. A light stain to accentuate the grain and some wood wax for finish. Don't confuse wood sealing wax with car wax. This stuff dries hard (Deftoil satin is my preference). I thought about trying an epoxy resin finish on my next set of portafilter handles.

I would just like to add a few comments if I may about my little bumper tampers. Len is spot on, the tamper handles aren't that photogenic due to the moulded rubber handles having a visible seam. This is because I wanted the handles to have a rubber skin all over, not just in a few places so that there was absolutely no chance of it slipping. As such the handle is a handle within a handle because underneath the rubber is the same shape but in metal. Here is a cutaway pic done using a dremel...

It's tempting to really push more glamorous models made from all stainless steel and aluminium (which we do have and would love to because I am a metal finishing geek) but I really believe in the soft handles and want to stick with my original concept and have them available in both rubber or metal.

Paul

Hey paul, I would love one of those portafilter rests for tamping. Are you going to sell those?

doleeo wrote:Hey paul, I would love one of those portafilter rests for tamping. Are you going to sell those?

Hey Paul! I hate to say.. no, that's not true... "I tolja so!" ; >


Yeah, mee too!, and when and where do we learn about the new toys that you are experimenting with?

Paul_Pratt wrote:

Paul,

You really are a tease

I had no issue with the bumper tamp. In fact, in a busy cafe, the rubber no slip coating would be a definite plus.

This HAS been an interesting couple of days! Let me first go over my assessment of the looks of the RS tampers since all things aesthetic interest me. The tampers are ALL pretty good looking and even the modest Lava import would dress up (nearly) any kitchen/coffee bar. The RS tampers can be put into three (3) distinctive categories, looks wise.

Category 1 - the Hotties! These are drop dead gorgeous tampers.
- Pullman
- Torr
- Coffeelab Design
- Espressocraft
- EP5 Wood with Compressore piston
- Reg Barber
The Torr gets my vote as the most beautiful tamper in the group and the RS version has one of the less beautiful woods available from Cafe Kultur. The EP5 Wood gets my second vote and the other four are not far behind.

Category 2 - the Workers! These look like the tools that they are...and there is nothing wrong with that.
- Compressore
- Bumper
- Clicker
- Both Lavas
- Reg Barber Radical Pro
- EPNW Pro with Compressore piston

Category 3 - the Enigmas! These don't fit into either of the other two categories.
- Thor
- La Forza
I found that I never really warmed up to the looks of the Thor or Forza. There is a klunkiness to the Thor which is off-putting to me. While I appreciate La Forza's craftsmanship (it is, after all, hand-turned clay which is fired and hand painted) I just don't appreciate the painting. I would rather look at the wood grain of any of the wooden tampers in Category 1 or the industrial chic beauty of the Coffeelab or Espressocraft.

Hey! This is only a matter of opinion and I know others really appreciate the looks of both tampers in Category 3.

Tomorrow, I hope to post the requisite 3 reviews.

Len

Worldman wrote:There is a clunkiness to the Thor which is off-putting to me. ... ...I would rather look at the wood grain of any of the wooden tampers in Category 1 ...

Uhm, Len, what you got in the RS is one of the fairly plain jane versions of these tampers. For exquisite wood grains and beautiful profiles, check out the website. And when you discover that he'll turn PF handles out of the same woods, lemme know if it changes your mind. The klunkiness I'll give you. The lack of interesting wood is an exception (although I like the plain jane version) rather than the rule.

Psyd wrote:Uhm, Len, what you got in the RS is one of the fairly plain jane versions of these tampers. For exquisite wood grains and beautiful profiles, check out the website. And when you discover that he'll turn PF handles out of the same woods, lemme know if it changes your mind. The klunkiness I'll give you. The lack of interesting wood is an exception (although I like the plain jane version) rather than the rule.

Yeah, I've seen the exotic woods on their website and they are nice looking. The "klunkiness" is a result of the profile/design and will be the same regardless of the wood from which it is cut.

Len

I have been enjoying the reviews and learning even more about tampers. I sent a plain Thor Tamper made from Oregon Ash. It is core weighted with Bismuth a non-toxic metal. It has a Lignum Vitae base, the hardest wood in the world. I wish I had made a custom tamper for the Road Show. I think a more exotic wood would have been nice. However, mine is the only light colored tamper. I did an exchange with one of the others in the Road Show and this is what I sent him (the one on the top). The bottom tamper is one that was custom fit for the customer's hand. It's new home is in Colorado. Both of these are 58mm made from Desert Ironwood. It is nice to see so many good tampers out there. I hope everyone continues to enjoy their experience with the Roadshow. Thank you for having one of my tampers in the line-up.

Les
(Thor Tampers)

Len wrote: "Yeah, I've seen the exotic woods on their website and they are nice looking. The "clunkiness" is a result of the profile/design and will be the same regardless of the wood from which it is cut."


Paul O'Day and I are working on a new design. In fact, I have a couple of new designs in the works. The profile will be much different than the one in the roadshow. My current standard design is a newer generation than the one in the roadshow. This new design has been beta tested and two of the new tampers should be on the way to Paul at Barefoot in about a week. By the way, there is no "their", I am a one man shop with another full time job. This is a labor of love.

Les
(Thor Tampers.)

As I said, this HAS been an interesting couple of days!

My equipment: I use an Expobar Office Control which is, um...not stock + Cunill Tranquillo doser-less grinder, EPNW OEM cut nekkid' PF with a (mostly) double, ridged basket.


My settings: The boiler pressure is set to ~0.95 bar (13.8 PSI) as confirmed by a home-made steam wand gauge. The pump pressure is limited to ~ 10 bar (145 PSI) as confirmed by an 1-st Line PF mounted gauge.


My practice: I grind directly into the PF basket and overfill it quite a bit. This is followed with a Stockfleth move, then leveling. I then place the PF onto a thick cotton cloth on the edge of the counter and tamp, first vertically (applying ~34 pounds force), then N-S-E-W. This is followed by swirling 4 or 5 times in the CW direction using only the weight of the tamper as force. I then lightly tap the side of the PF a couple of times with the side of the piston of the tamper. This is followed by a reverse rotation (CCW) of ~ ¼ to ½ turn with reduced downward force of perhaps 20 pounds. The PF is then inverted over the cloth and lightly shaken to drop any stray grounds. I mostly pull doubles and split the espresso between myself and wifey; we each drink 5, 6 or 7 espressos per day, every day of the week/month/year.

This shows the dosing before I went naked...but you get an idea of the amount of grinds I dispense.

EPNW Lava Import

For my three (3) reviews, it was inevitable that one of the tampers I choose be the Lava Import as this is the only non-plastic tamper I have ever owned. I bought it a couple of years ago from EPNW via Ebay for $16 or so and was taken with its smooth and confident feel from the very first tamp.

Mine is the one on the left...or is it the one on the right?

The tag "import" is of some interest as I usually consider that identifying something with a generic "import" usually means that it is imported form China. One would assume that if it were imported from France, it would be called a French import, from Germany, a German import, from Brazil, a Brazilian import, etc. When something is called merely imported (without identifying the country from which it came) it is pretty easy to assume that it came from some country that we do not associate with quality and since so much of US imports do come from China, I always assume China is the country of manufacture. If the source of the lil' Lava is China, we can then wonder if it is made by prison labor; you have all seen the documentaries. Prison labor aside, I have been to China dozens of times (perhaps as many as 80 times) since 1989 and have traveled throughout China a far north as the HEILONGJIANG Province (China's northernmost province - just below Russia), as far west as Gansu Province (only three provinces and one steel mill are west of Gansu) and everywhere south and east of these. Many people assume that China can NOT make quality products. This just isn't so. China has the capability to produce quality. In fact, China has the capability to produce ANYTHING.


The "Import" Lava is clearly outclassed by nearly all the other tampers in the RS but is, I believe, the lowest priced tamper in the RS. Based on its economy alone, it would merit consideration...especially by a self avowed cheapskate like me. The Lava import also feels to me to be the lightest/lowest weight of the tampers in the RS. There is a definite feel of superiority and confidence that a heavy tamper imparts and the Lava import, by comparison, doesn't "meet muster".

Before the RS arrived at my door, I thought the Lava was an ideal fit in my hand. Now, I realize that there are better fits, but the Lava still feels good. Its "action" is as secure as I need; maybe just not as secure as I now want. [DARN you HB & EPNW!!!] While it doesn't have the refinement of the other tampers, it will allow you to pull a really good shot and this IS what it is all about. Here are some pictures of shots pulled with the Lava import doing tamper duties.





Reg Barber - (NOT Radical Pro)

I commented in the my post regarding my preconceptions of the tampers that:

As for Reg Barber, I still don't get "it"...but please allow me to continue my "search".

I never understood the popularity or high-ish price of the RB tamper and assumed that they were popular because most were merely buying that which they were directed to buy. Man, do I ever get "it" now. I think the Reg Barber is the finest overall tamper in the group! This is a strong statement, but I can support it.

The RB seems to almost center itself in the basket. There is a positive feel to the way it enters the basket and an even more secure feel to the way it performs the tamping. Maybe it is that the fit of the RB piston is ideal for my Expobar supplied basket, but I KNOW that it feels right. OK, this sounds like "lunatic fringe" commentary, but it is what I experience with ol' Reggie. It is something about the shape of the handle and more so, the piston, the sides of which look to be straight but behave as if they had a very, very slight taper. It has a sweet polishing feel that is only rivaled by the Pullman, Compressore and Torr, making polishing feel almost as if it is effortless.

Note to self: get one soon.

Here is a double shot pulled with ol' Reggie and the resultant cinos.




Since I can't figure out which tamper to pick for my third, I'll post this and get to number 3 within the next day or so.

Len

GreatDane wrote:I have been enjoying the reviews and learning even more about tampers. I sent a plain Thor Tamper made from Oregon Ash. It is core weighted with Bismuth a non-toxic metal. It has a Lignum Vitae base, the hardest wood in the world. I wish I had made a custom tamper for the Road Show. I think a more exotic wood would have been nice. However, mine is the only light colored tamper. I did an exchange with one of the others in the Road Show and this is what I sent him (the one on the top). The bottom tamper is one that was custom fit for the customer's hand. It's new home is in Colorado. Both of these are 58mm made from Desert Ironwood. It is nice to see so many good tampers out there. I hope everyone continues to enjoy their experience with the Roadshow. Thank you for having one of my tampers in the line-up.

Les
(Thor Tampers)

Les,

These are some hottie tampers! Also, I can appreciate that they are not as klunky as the one on the RS.

I am sorry for asking, but who is Paul O'Day?

Len