Laral wrote:@Psyd:
Excuse me for asking er, uh, "big bro'", but where are you reading all this into that quote? I see no mention of motor size in the entire article to that point.

The very fact that all of those primary and secondary controllers, branch feeders, overload, adjustable speed drive, and a whole buncha experience getting schooled by folk who are involved in writing the NEC on a regular basis.

'Hyperbole'? I'm not exactly sure what part of my post you thought was exaggerated, but I'm fairly direct about the NEC and that particular quote. A lot of the detail I went into was to indicate that the language used in the NEC isn't always the same and parallel to the language that we use on the street. A 'disconnect' and a 'connector' aren't the same to Joe Lunchpail as they are to the Framers of the NEC.
Understanding their lexicon makes quite a few things that they say much clearer. Even with the exposure I get from those involved in the drafting of the document, and the exposure I get from working in close proximity with electricians fairly frequently, I still have trouble following some of the descriptions and instructions. So, when I try to describe them, I try to get the details as accurate as I can, and that takes a lot of words.
But hardly hyperbolic.
Section 430 of chapter 4 could refer to the SJ motor, but then you'd have to have some mechanism that would not let you disconnect the ground or the neutral until the hot had been disconnected.

Psyd wrote:... but then you'd have to have some mechanism that would not let you disconnect the ground or the neutral until the hot had been disconnected.

Like the plug on the cord, eh?

I'm an Industrial Electrician specializing in German Manufacturing Equipment. From what I gather here everyone is speaking of a 110V circuit and why the neutral wire would be switched in a foreign appliance. (110V = single phase). The answer is quite simple, the manufacturer makes this machine to work in both a 110V and 220V world. In a 220V world there is no neutral, there are only 2 load carrying conductors (each of which are a neutral for one-half of the sine wave and a ground). The main circuit breaker to your residence, the one at the top center, disconnects both load conductors to your home (American residences have 220V incoming which is split and balanced between circuits). Manufacturers do not wire the machines for 2 separate power markets unless code dictates otherwise, which is rare. In regards to a 110V single phase circuit the neutral and ground wires do indeed connect at the service entrance to the building. The difference between the two is the ground is a non-current carrying conductor, the neutral is a current carrying conductor because it is the return path. If you connect a amp meter to a neutral wire with an appliance under load you will indeed see a small current flow. If however you connect a amp meter to a ground conductor you would see no current flow. However, if a current flow is present on ground, immediately turn off the breaker for that circuit, do not touch the appliance as you have a potentially dangerous situation on your hands. As far as getting an electrical license in the USA, it is not an easy thing to do. I know of no state that allows for a electrical contractors license without the electrician going through a apprentice, journeyman and ultimately masters program. In most all states this means being part of the IBEW which certifies the number of hours, work skills, and training to take the appropriate state exams. Additionally, without IBEW certification it is almost impossible for a journeyman to cross from one state to another without the direction of a locally licensed master electrician. Where most people become confused is the licensing process, licenses are not required to work on machinery, but they are required to do construction be it residential or commercial. There are however, unscrupulous people who obtain a business license and pass this off as licensed residential/commercial electricians. Before anyone adds a branch circuit to your dwelling, check to see that the person indeed minimally has a journeyman's license. Ensure that the proper permits were pulled because if a hazard develops due to workmanship your insurance will not cover it. Lastly, if you do not have electrical training do not think that you can read a book (NEC or otherwise) and be a electrician. That is the surest way to get yourself hurt.

For the european that so kindly chimed in about the US power grid, you are absolutely right. The grid in Europe and most of Asia is actually better than that of North America. The reason is simple though, North Americas power grid has never been rebuilt, unlike Europe and Asia's in the late 1940's.

OK Psyd, rbchilds gets the beer.

rbchilds wrote:The grid in Europe and most of Asia is actually better than that of North America. The reason is simple though, North Americas power grid has never been rebuilt, unlike Europe and Asia's in the late 1940's.

First of all, how is it "better"? Remember that most European countries would fit inside a small US state. So that's a much larger scale system than any small country would have to build/maintain. Second, Europeans love to criticize the US's gross waste of energy and its huge carbon footprint and yet apparently some also criticize the lack of power of our machines. That's funny, my coffee machine consumes 4300W just to heat water. If that's not overkill what is? And it's not even close to bringing down the grid. Also, like you say, our power grid dates back to the 1890s and it was a certain European immigrant who gave us and the world the AC power systems we benefit from and who figured out empirically that 60Hz is the minimum frequency required for flicker-free lighting and later, TV. Something that was totally lost on the 50Hz Europeans. Ever see analog TV in Europe? They had slightly higher resolution but noticeable flicker.

Laral wrote:OK Psyd, rbchilds gets the beer.

Only if I get to go over and buy it for him myself in the local Gasthaus or Bierhalle, bitte! I do have to say, that guy is the one that does need the beer. He's surrounded by some of the best in the world. I will hand make a coffee of you choice for you next time you're in AZ, though, rbchilds.

rbchilds wrote:The answer is quite simple, the manufacturer makes this machine to work in both a 110V and 220V world.
<snip>
Manufacturers do not wire the machines for 2 separate power markets unless code dictates otherwise

This is the conclusion that I came to, but wanted some professional confirmation. Thanks!

Psyd wrote:but then you'd have to have some mechanism that would not let you disconnect the ground or the neutral until the hot had been disconnected.

shadowfax wrote:Like the plug on the cord, eh?

While the cord allows you to unplug all three, it has no mechanism (spec'ed in the originally posted snippet of the NEC) to capture the neutral and ground until the hot has been disconnected. It's that particular specification that clued me to the fact that these were not your average, run-of-the-mill, kitchen appliance motors being spoken of.

rbchilds wrote:Before anyone adds a branch circuit to your dwelling, check to see that the person indeed minimally has a journeyman's license. Ensure that the proper permits were pulled because if a hazard develops due to workmanship your insurance will not cover it.

So in addition to hiring a licensed electrician you need a permit as well? Is that something the electrician applies for? Is there a listing somewhere of IBEW members in an area?

My understanding is that it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There will be a website for the appropriate government agency with all the information you need. Generally speaking, whoever is acting as the contractor files for the permits. If you are acting as your own contractor, it's your responsibility to get permitted. If you're working through an independent contractor, it would normally be his responsibility. Here in California, only the property owner, an authorized agent of the owner, or a licensed contractor may sign the permit application. Oh, and any electrical work requires permitting.

Laral wrote:So in addition to hiring a licensed electrician you need a permit as well? Is that something the electrician applies for?

In our town, the electrician must register with the inspection department and pay a yearly fee for permitting privileges. If you ask them to pull a permit and they balk, there's usually a reason (i.e., they're not licensed). The owner can act as their own contractor, however they must sign verification that they currently live in the property and plan to remain there for at least one year (this provision was added to discourage work by "fix it and flip it" property owners).

It may seem like a lot of hassle for wires, but as my insurance agent once told me, if your house burns to the ground and a faulty electrical installation is to blame, they'll chase after whomever did the work for damages, whether it's an electrician or the owner. In our town, having a "final" recorded on your permit is for your personal safety and fiscal protection.