So far "who wins" in the hypothetical is with both on top end machines after X amount of learning.

To answer the question I'll define better differently.

After X amount of learning the two barista meet in a room with 6 different espresso machines ranging in class $200 to $20,000, all with same beans and grinder. They have one hour to present their best shot from each machine for judging. That gives them 10 minutes average to figure out each machine and serve it's shot. In my mind a realistic real test of barista skill.

Now who wins, the one with the broader range of experiences or the one that started on and stayed only on a machine like a GB5 or GS3? The answer should be obvious.

BTW, the type of test I'll be putting myself through this coming weekend teaching a 3 hour Home Barista 101 class where they bring their home espresso machines and grinders to learn how to best use them. I am certainly glad I have experience on many many different class machines. (Of course if I didn't, I wouldn't be offering the class.)

Which is not to say I'd ever suggest getting anything less than the best you can afford. Not everyone (or many) can afford a GS3 class machine for home use.

Wow, better range of experience potentially gives you the experience to do better on a random machine. Not exactly the same as producing the best shot possible on a single machine you are intimately familiar with.

Compass Coffee wrote:BTW, the type of test I'll be putting myself through this coming weekend teaching a 3 hour Home Barista 101 class where they bring their home espresso machines and grinders to learn how to best use them. I am certainly glad I have experience on many many different class machines. (Of course if I didn't, I wouldn't be offering the class.)

I certainly hope this event becomes the subject of a new post. Certainly there are classes available from noted roasters (Counter Culture, Intelligentsia, perhaps others), but, to the best of my declining knowledge, this is the first event of this type I can remember. I hope it is successful in all respects and, if you have an outline, I'd love to see it - erics at erols dot com.

As much as I love theoretical discussions, there is a practical aspect to this thread that needs to be addressed. I know that I can resell my used PID'd Silvia on Craigslist for about the same as I paid for it. I might want to sell it because I've decided espresso isn't such a great hobby after all, or I come to discover that it is holding me back. I could have started on a higher plane, but that would have entailed a much higher risk. The level of enthusiasm and commitment on this forum is remarkable, but the starting home barista isn't there: it takes time to develop. Maybe time could be better spent using better gear but the investment is too great. To advise someone to buy the best equipment they can afford means deciding what else can be sacrificed.

asicign wrote:To advise someone to buy the best equipment they can afford means deciding what else can be sacrificed.

No, I don't subscribe to "buy the best you can afford" advice.

Your equipment choice (Rancilio Silvia + PID) is an excellent example. It's at the very peak of the first tier equipment choices. For a few hundred dollars less, you can buy a Gaggia and have similar espresso, albeit from a machine with lesser quality construction/components. For a few hundred dollars more, you can move to the next tier and stave off upgrade fever for years. So my advice is to stay within your budget's "comfort zone", but be wary of choices that straddle two tiers. The same analysis applies to grinders (e.g., Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky vs. Mazzer Super Jolly).

I don't think you have to spend a fortune on espresso equipment. One of the most frequently asked questions is "Shopping for espresso machine/grinder with budget $xxx, what should I buy?" (examples). As I noted in the "right price" thread, there are good choices in every price range, assuming you're aware of the limitations inherent to each tier.

HB wrote:I don't think you have to spend a fortune on espresso equipment. One of the most frequently asked questions is "Shopping for espresso machine/grinder with budget $xxx, what should I buy?" (examples). As I noted in the "right price" thread, there are good choices in every price range, assuming you're aware of the limitations inherent to each tier.

A lot of equipment choices are also based on opportunity - especially in the unpredictable used equipment market.

I always have my eyes out for a bargain; if I see equipment better than I have for an excellent price, I go for it! Well, within reason...I don't have room/power for a 3 group Linea even if it was an excellent deal. But I did recently come across a couple of Super Jollys that I got for $75/ea. Deals are out there, and if you're willing to wait a while, strike when the opportunity presents itself, and be open to doing a repair/restore, you can get great equipment for a song.

Some folks need shiny new hardware. I don't care how the equipment looks - I care about what's in the cup.

There's a big difference between praising bad (entry level) equipment versus acknowledging there are a lot of people who use it and helping them make the best use of it.

There hasn't really been a lot of the latter in this thread.

Compass Coffee wrote:There's a big difference between praising bad (entry level) equipment versus acknowledging there are a lot of people who use it and helping them make the best use of it.

aecletec wrote:There hasn't really been a lot of the latter in this thread.

The original question was, "...does having to struggle with unforgiving equipment make one a better barista, in the long run?" so I assumed that the OP was not looking for solutions.