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Do you believe that the background affects the flavor?

Postby Arpi on Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:42 pm

Coffee flavor comes from the sum of its chemical elements. During roasting we manipulate them. During extraction we manipulate them.

Since flavor is eventually a stimulus, do you think that drinking coffee in different circumstances (backgrounds) makes it taste differently? Is flavor a perception affected by (or relative to) circumstances? For example, can the same coffee (with the same chemical elements) in one country taste different (for the same person) because the change of the social/environmental/mental background?
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Postby gyro on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:23 pm

Dunno about taste, but certainly the enjoyment of it.
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Postby Arpi on Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:06 pm

I guess that would be part of the mental circumstances. Do you think that a judge tasting coffee would give better grades if he/she had a good day? Other mental circumstances may be experience, knowledge, perceived value (Kopi luwak anyone?), culture, etc.

I agree that the flavor would not change till the tasting point (same chemicals inside mouth). But what happens after wards in the brain? Would the perception of the same chemicals change because of different backgrounds? Could some parts of the brain bias others by changing the circumstances?
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Postby zin1953 on Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:08 pm

Taste is always subject to environment, stimuli, time of day, fatigue, mood, and other mental and emotional states . . .
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Postby another_jim on Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:48 pm

Several things are well known about taste discrimination:
-- It is best in the morning, prior to eating.
-- Perfumes are a no-no. I use unscented soaps, toothpaste, etc, and find it difficult to taste or smell anything in the company of someone heavily perfumed. Only one restaurateur in Chicago kicks perfumed people out, but all the high end restaurants reserve the right to do so if they waft beyond their tables.
-- Anti-histamines, prior eating, alcohol all dull taste.
-- Familiarity dulls taste, your first impression, or the one immediately after a long break, is likely to be best.
-- and obviously, no smoking

Enjoyment and appreciation, as opposed to accurate judgment, are helped by:
-- attractive presentation of the dishes
-- being happy, relaxed, and undistracted
-- all the other things well run restaurants accomplish.

Sometimes I wonder how well the accurate judgment and happy appreciation of food correlate.
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Postby Psyd on Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:14 pm

Taste is a perception. Perceptions are made by the brain and not in a vacuum. I'd be willing to bet that things would score higher in a a lighter room than a darker one.
Yeah, my memories of great meals are all in great environments, with great people, or both.
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Postby DavidMLewis on Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:57 pm

I would add to Jim's list that I find it difficult to taste in a discriminating way in a noisy environment. In my home, where the laundry room is next to the kitchen, I have to close the door if the washer or dryer are in use and I'm trying to taste in a critical way. It sounds like a weird synesthetic effect, but anecdotally I'm certainly not alone.

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Postby espressme on Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:20 pm

I suffer from a type of Autism/Asperger's Syndrome. That means, among other difficulties, that I am really strongly affected by noise and smells in the environment. I have have had many a great meal ruined by loud, boisterous, and perfumed/cologne'd persons entering the establishment during my meal.
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Postby ethiopie on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:05 pm

About 10 years ago, one of my friends participated in an research project about beer brewing techniques, as a member of a taste panel. He is a beer afficionado but the project turned out to be a very humiliating experience. In the proper scientific context, he couldn't consistently differentiate between beers that, in normal circumstances, beer lovers would describe as quite different. Moreover, he discovered that his judgement wasn't very consistent. Two taste descriptions of the same beer, one week apart, often were only roughly similar. No member of the panel was markedly better than another one, at least not consistently.

We still drink lots of beer together, but we limit our judgements nowadays to 'nice', 'bitter', 'sweet', 'hoppy' etc. If we feel particularly sharp, we might add 'fruity'.

I suspect humans aren't that good at tasting things. So, given that: of course background affects flavor sensations. Where would all these different sensations come from, if not from background, mood, circumstances, etc.?

Perhaps thing are different with coffee, of course :shock: .
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Postby Arpi on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:08 pm

Interesting. Thanks for the answers.

Changing the topic a little bit, is flavor something fixed or the result of an interpretation (relative)? For example, an image of an object is not the object, or a description in words is neither the object. An image could be many bright dots together without any meaning unless a pattern is recognized. But with flavor, the object is the brew (change bright dots for tongue receptors). Depending on how/who/when/why/etc, the opinion of the flavor could change (different interpretations). If we were to give a cup of excellence to someone not familiar in tasting coffee, his/her appreciation may not reflect the good quality of the coffee. Meanwhile the object of an image is outside of ourselves, its image happens inside us (where its interpretation happens). The flavor of coffee happens inside the mind, making it more opaque to the exchange of external opinions.

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