prima-coffee.com: coffee & espresso equipment and accessories

Disappointed Again

Postby JimWright on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Yesterday, I decided to go out and get a cup of coffee in the late afternoon and read the Sunday paper. My wife asked that I try not to be gone for too long, and I had plenty of beans for home after having been up to the city (SF) to Ritual on Saturday, so I decided that rather than driving back to the city again or down to San Jose or Santa Cruz, each of which would have ensured a good cup but taken at least 30 minutes drive each way, I would make yet one more attempt at finding coffee on the Peninsula.

I started with Yelp, where oddly, I found that more than half of the non-chain cafes I could even find near me were closed on Sundays or Sunday afternoons. Ok, baristas and cafe owners need a day off too. Undeterred, I made my way north and stopped in downtown Burlingame, where I landed at a cafe that will remain unnamed, but which holds itself out as serving coffee in the Italian tradition. Putting aside the recurring theme discussion about the actual experience of coffee on the ground in Italy, my espresso was wretched - bitter, burnt, and watery, undrinkable to the point that after a few sips, I gave up and poured it out. The place was apparently closing shortly and when I'd walked in, there was no one behind the bar and the barista came in from socializing outside to make my drink. (I also bought a pastry, which was wrapped in plastic - give them a chance, I think to myself - and it was ok although it's hard to screw up something whose three primary ingredients are flour, butter and chocolate.)

I was going to post about this experience separately, and then after seeing the thread on coffee cheapskates, I had to laugh - if even cafe owners and baristas, people whose living is, at least in substantial part, espresso, can't be bothered to make a decent cup of it on average, why would we expect people making coffee at home to do so? And how in the name of all that is holy is this tolerated in cafes? I'm continually stupefied at the poor espresso being served in most places I try and have retreated for the most part to making it at home, or driving the distance to go to Verve, Barefoot, etc., or other known spots when I'm traveling. But as I did yesterday, I occasionally try, try again, and my hopes are dashed 9 times out of 10.

Oh, and as far as people spending thousands on espresso equipment and then buying crappy beans, I can't say I've seen much of this myself, but given all of the people who buy BMWs and then let the engines run out of oil or other such nonsense, and who drink crappy coffee at $4/latte from cafes serving coffee that not many here would willingly tolerate, this is hardly a change from other typical consumer behavior (at least here in the U.S.).

In any event, I guess that's my rant of the day... And my kingdom (or at least some coffee on me) to the man who can find me a decent espresso in San Mateo County!
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Postby Beezer on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:38 pm

I feel your pain. I've pretty much given up trying to find a decent cafe in my area (Fresno), and as far as I can tell, there really aren't any good shops within a 200-mile radius of this city. The only good shops I'm aware of in the Northern/Central California area are in Santa Cruz (Verve, Lulu's), Santa Clara (Barefoot), San Francisco (Blue Bottle, Ritual, Four Barrel), and Healdsburg (Flying Goat is decent). All of those cities are at least 2.5 to four hours from my house. OK, I'm sure there must be others, but still there's nothing close enough to me to be practical. Oh well, that's why I spent big bucks on espresso gear and, yes, decent beans.

That reminds me, I have to order another batch of fresh Belle from Coffee Klatch.
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Postby blacktalon on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:56 pm

I feel you pain. Things aren't any better in Northern Virginia/ DC. We've gone to several coffee houses/ cafes that people have raved about, and found their espressos and cappas to be pretty bad. The better ones we've had have typically been at restaurants where our expectations were quite low. Which is why I'm here on HB now, as we're trying to learn how to make great espressos at home. And while we've also had some poor espressos in Italy, we've had several really, really good ones in small restaurants/ trattorias in out-of-the-way places.

When my new espresso machine arrived sans the promised coffee beans 2 weeks ago, I headed out for a shop close by that roasts their own beans, and where everyone raves about the coffee. The barista/ cashier I purchased the espresso blend from proudly informed me the beans -- which she was using in preparing several espresso-based drinks while I was waiting -- had been roasted the previous evening. That gave me a good laugh, as that would be a call to arms to the general population on this forum. I bought a pound of the beans to try later in the week, but they turned out to be so over-roasted (to me, at least), I never used them. Thankfully the beans I was supposed to receive with my machine order arrived the next day!

I'm still looking for a local source, but for now at least I'll be buying beans through mail order. I'm a pretty green barista at this point, but I'm already turning out some espressos that beat what I can buy locally, and I've stopped having to add sugar!
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Postby Bob_M on Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Beezer wrote: I've pretty much given up trying to find a decent cafe in my area (Fresno), and as far as I can tell, there really aren't any good shops within a 200-mile radius of this city

In Modesto, Ca there is a good place called Queen Bean...it's down town and that's only about 80 mi from fresno
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Postby Beezer on Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:49 pm

In Modesto, Ca there is a good place called Queen Bean...it's down town and that's only about 80 mi from fresno


All right, thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it out next time I'm up that way. Unfortunately, it's still a long way to drive for an espresso. :cry:
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Postby yakster on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:10 pm

JimWright wrote:Yesterday, I decided to go out and get a cup of coffee... I started with Yelp...


I have given up on using Yelp to find a good place for coffee. I've realized that I am looking for something different then most of the Yelp reviewers who seem to be looking for Mocha, Frappiccino, or Chai Lattes, with little discussion on the espresso or coffee or the freshness of the roasts. I pick up the occasional recommendation from dedicated coffee forums, blogs, sites like http://www.espressomap.com, or word of mouth.

I've resigned myself to a few places for coffee and mostly brew and enjoy it at home.

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Postby Droshi on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 am

Just an observation, but the people that can TELL the difference is a relatively small number. People have a perception of coffee, and the way it's supposed to taste.

For cafes to really step it up across the board, people have to demand it. Right now people (at least in the US) demand milk and sugar that has a reminiscent coffee flavor.
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Postby JimWright on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:18 am

I feel your pain Eli. I regularly drive 70 miles to get breakfast at Zachary's, drop the wife off at her mom's and spend an afternoon at Verve in Santa Cruz. A long drive for an espresso indeed. I told Heidi on Sunday night after I got back from the cafe that we would not be buying a house anywhere more than 10 miles from good espresso when that time comes. I figure I probably spend $40-80/mo just on gas driving to coffee, let alone on the coffee itself. (She is mystified by this, but she doesn't enjoy the whole cafe lounging thing quite like I do. Maybe after you work in one it's not the same anymore. Hmmmm.)

And I agree Andre - serving people espresso at home is often a treat as they typically have not experienced coffee as anything but bitter swill without sugar. Still, I find it amazing that there are so many cafes out there serving espresso that is simply not good, even if most consumers don't know the difference - where is the pride of the owners and baristas? Don't they know? Isn't it their business to know? Color me confused.
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Postby Bushrod on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:20 am

blacktalon wrote:I feel you pain. Things aren't any better in Northern Virginia/ DC. We've gone to several coffee houses/ cafes that people have raved about, and found their espressos and cappas to be pretty bad. The better ones we've had have typically been at restaurants where our expectations were quite low. Which is why I'm here on HB now, as we're trying to learn how to make great espressos at home. And while we've also had some poor espressos in Italy, we've had several really, really good ones in small restaurants/ trattorias in out-of-the-way places.

When my new espresso machine arrived sans the promised coffee beans 2 weeks ago, I headed out for a shop close by that roasts their own beans, and where everyone raves about the coffee. The barista/ cashier I purchased the espresso blend from proudly informed me the beans -- which she was using in preparing several espresso-based drinks while I was waiting -- had been roasted the previous evening. That gave me a good laugh, as that would be a call to arms to the general population on this forum. I bought a pound of the beans to try later in the week, but they turned out to be so over-roasted (to me, at least), I never used them. Thankfully the beans I was supposed to receive with my machine order arrived the next day!

I'm still looking for a local source, but for now at least I'll be buying beans through mail order. I'm a pretty green barista at this point, but I'm already turning out some espressos that beat what I can buy locally, and I've stopped having to add sugar!


You don't seem to be listening to the right people raving. Do not buy beans from Misha's!

There PLENTY of places in NOVA/DC to buy good coffee.

VA: Boccato Gelato in Clarendon sells Stumptown's Hairbender. They always seem to sell out of the prepackaged, but Rob will sell you 12 ounces in an ice cream container. I got some yesterday roasted on 9-26. They have an Old Town location in the works.

VA: Grape and Bean in Old Town serves Counter Culture coffees brewed with their Clover. They will special order anything you want from Counter Culture so you can save on shipping.

DC: Big Bear Cafe. Haven't been there in a while, but they served Counter Culture Espresso La Forza when I was there.

DC: Peregrine Espresso. Counter Culture Espresso Aficionado. Awesome!!

DC: Chinatown Coffee Company. Intelligentsia Black Cat. Awesome!!

DC: SOVA. Also Intelligentsia. Did not enjoy the cappuccino last time I was there.

DC: Sticky Fingers Bakery. It's been a while but they served Intelligentsia. Keep an eye on the roast date.

DC: Dolcezza Gelato. Was there a couple weeks ago and they had Black Cat. I think they might be going back to Counter Culture's Espresso Toscano soon though.
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Postby Marshall on Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:48 pm

Yelp reviews of coffee shops are on a par with ballet reviews by the blind.
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