I read somewhere that if you lock in the portafilter with grounds in place for more than a few seconds without pulling the shot that you will "burn" the coffee. I think this would be fiction. I can't imagine it gets hot enough, fast enough, to really affect the grounds. I tried searching relevant terms and didn't see anything here. I am sure it could have some effect it you left the portafilter locked in for an extended period of time, but I would think anything under a minutes would not cause any issues. Any thoughts?

dialydose wrote:I tried searching relevant terms and didn't see anything here.

I searched on 'coffee burn portafilter' and found a couple previous discussions: Heated portafilter burns coffee or not? and Can hot portafilter burn the coffee even before brewing?

dialydose wrote:I am sure it could have some effect it you left the portafilter locked in for an extended period of time, but I would think anything under a minutes would not cause any issues. Any thoughts?

I agree. For what it's worth, the typical idle temperature of the portafilter / dispersion screen area of the HX espresso machine's I've measured is around 185F, far too cool to "burn" the coffee. I haven't measured, but a minute or two baking in the grouphead could be enough to evaporate the coffee oils and thereby decrease the pour time.

It's a bit of an academic question. Why would you want to leave a tamped puck in the group for more than a few seconds before pulling the shot?

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It's not entirely academic. What if were using a multi-group espresso machine and wanted to serve 4 cappuccinos simultaneously (as was required for SCAA barista competitions at one time)? Do I load up two groups, four cups, and pull all at once, steaming while the pours progress, or start one pour and then the other?

That said, the technical judges will ding the competitor if they don't start brewing immediately after locking in the portafilter. So, evidently, the SCAA technical standards committee has weighed in on this question. I wonder if that decision was based on objective in-cup comparisons or simply optimal workflow principles.

You make a valid point. But I'd still think that best practice would dictate that the prepped puck remain in a group for the minimum possible time, whether the shot is being drawn at home, cafe or competition. This does presuppose that the elevated temperature in the group is likely to accelerate the staling of the prepped puck.

I'm not speaking to absolute periods here. Work flow might suggest that ten seconds is more efficient to the process than five. But I am suggesting that the time in the group prior to the shot should be minimized and not extended without compelling reason. Unless of course rigorous testing shows that a few minutes at elevated temperature has no significant effect on the shot quality.

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HB wrote:I searched on 'coffee burn portafilter' and found a couple previous discussions: Heated portafilter burns coffee or not? and Can hot portafilter burn the coffee even before brewing?

I need to work on my google skills. Thanks for the links. Also, thank you for the title edit. My tries resulted in too long of titles.

HB wrote:It's not entirely academic. What if were using a multi-group espresso machine and wanted to serve 4 cappuccinos simultaneously (as was required for SCAA barista competitions at one time)? Do I load up two groups, four cups, and pull all at once, steaming while the pours progress, or start one pour and then the other?

While I don't have a multi-group machine, I have double boiler machine and don't run 240. So, I often lock in the portafilter and begin steaming, then start the shot once I finish stretching the milk, usually about 20 seconds. While this certainly isn't a long time, the information I was reading opined that anything beyond a few seconds was a problem.

If you prep the puck with the filter basket out of the portafilter, this becomes a complete nonissue (even when preparing several drinks on a multigroup machine). I always leave the PF locked into the group until I'm ready to pull the shot. Then I remove the PF, slip in the basket, lock back in and pull the shot. There is no question of burning the puck, or the PF cooling off, or balancing the PF while tamping... IMHO no downside whatsoever.

All you need to do is remove the PF spring clip, or use a ridgeless basket. (Perhaps someone can explain the rationale behind ridged baskets to me. I've never been able to understand their popularity.)

RapidCoffee wrote:I always leave the PF locked into the group until I'm ready to pull the shot. Then I remove the PF, slip in the basket, lock back in and pull the shot.

This doesn't solve my issue of starting to steam and then starting the shot. I think steaming with one hand and inserting the basket into the portafilter and then locking it in and then starting the shot would not be such a great idea.

On a side note, I am using this issue to convince my wife that we need to run a dedicated 240 line into the kitchen for the machine. So far, she isn't buying it.

another_jim wrote:On the other hand, PFs aren't nearly as ridiculously obsolete as qwerty keyboards (i.e. a layout specifically designed to prevent mechanical jams in the earliest letter-finger typewriters). So when it comes to changing inefficient customs, the PF is pretty far down the list.

This is why I dictate almost everything at work.

RapidCoffee wrote:(Perhaps someone can explain the rationale behind ridged baskets to me. I've never been able to understand their popularity.)

I bet if you think about the espresso production in a shop with a line to the door and you're the only espresso maker in sight, as opposed to using the machine at home, you'll begin to understand it.
It took me a second, too, but then I remembered that most of what we use is either crap or pro kit. While there are a few machines in between, most of them are some combination of pro kit adapted for kitchen use at home, or pro kit married to some crap to make it work at home.
If the time that the PF gets out of the group to when it gets refilled is measured in single digit seconds, messing with the PF basket falling out or squirming around while you try to clean it for the next pull becomes a major suck-fest.