First post! My machine's manual says a cup's brew time should be about 30 seconds. Well that would be one heck of a big cup. For me about 13 seconds is right. My grind is fine and the crema is slight. What has been bothering me is whether there is too much water pressure. The gauge indicates 1.3 bar.

Marion,

Welcome to HB. Many smart people on this great site to help you out, but most of them are sleeping right now, so I'll chime in.

The 1.3 bar you mention is your boiler pressure reflecting the temp inside the boiler, not the brew pressure. Brew pressure should be much higher! Just how many ounces do you get out of your machine in 30 seconds? In 30 seconds you should have no more than 2 ounces of espresso. If you have more, your grind is too fine and/or pump pressure is too high. Tighten up your grind to slow down your extraction...should start initially as a few drops before quickly moving to small streams that resemble mouse tails. Sounds like you are getting gusher shots which are closer to coffee than espresso.

If you tighten your grind and still cannot pull a 1.5 - 2 oz shot in under 30 seconds your grinder is incapable, your beans are old, or a combo of the two.

Might want to also hit the FAQ page to check out the many articles that have already taken place that will help you tremendously in your quest to get the perfect cup. http://www.home-barista.com/faqs-and-fa ... igest.html

Good luck.

fxstsb wrote:First post! My machine's manual says a cup's brew time should be about 30 seconds. Well that would be one heck of a big cup...

Before going further, two very important questions: Is the coffee fresh? By that, I mean the roast date, not when the bag was opened. Do you have a good grinder? I also suggest perusing the Recommended Reading in the FAQs and Favorites. After a night's reading, you'll have answers to today's espresso-related questions and most of those you would have thought up in the next three months.

If the brew time is too fast, you must refine the grind, if your grinder is capable of it. Getting the grind just right is about 80% of espresso making. A capable grinder is must. Refurbed hand-grinders, excellent but requiring arm power, can be had for < $100. A capable electric grinder costs from $250-$1000.

For people who have incapable grinders (either not quite fine enough, or the steps go from too coarse to too fine with nothing in between), there is a hack: grind too coarsely but overdose the basket and compact the coffee in the basket by tamping with great force. This will at least put you in the general vicinity of a mediocre espresso, or yield a cafe crema that's not too bad.

I do not recommend a heavy tamp, however. The above is an interim solution only.

P.S.There is also the possibility that the brew water is gushing past the coffee or through gaps in the coffee bed, aka "channeling", so that you're not getting an even, thorough extraction. You don't describe the "mouse-tail" so we can't know.

Read the Home Barista's Guide to Espresso.

timo888 wrote:If the brew time is too fast, you must refine the grind, if your grinder is capable of it. Getting the grind just right is about 80% of espresso making. A capable grinder is must. Refurbed hand-grinders, excellent but requiring arm power, can be had for < $100. A capable electric grinder costs from $250-$1000.

For people who have incapable grinders (either not quite fine enough, or the steps go from too coarse to too fine with nothing in between), there is a hack: grind too coarsely but overdose the basket and compact the coffee in the basket by tamping with great force. This will at least put you in the general vicinity of a mediocre espresso, or yield a cafe crema that's not too bad.

I do not recommend a heavy tamp, however. The above is an interim solution only.

P.S.There is also the possibility that the brew water is gushing past the coffee or through gaps in the coffee bed, aka "channeling", so that you're not getting an even, thorough extraction. You don't describe the "mouse-tail" so we can't know.

No mouse tail. I have suspected the pressure for awhile. I will need to look at the manual and see if there is an adjustment. Thanks. I have been using an old Krups grinder that I have had for 20+ yrs. It will grind to dust. Not that I would not live to get a doser.

Is your profile correct that you're using a Rancilio S26, which is a full-on commercial espresso machine, and a 20 year old Krups grinder? That's like mounting wooden wagon wheels on a sports car and expecting it to corner well!

Get yourself a good grinder (e.g., a used Mazzer Super Jolly); Introduction to Espresso Grinders explains the reasons your Krups doesn't cut it. There are dozens of threads from knowledgeable espresso hounds that all come to the same conclusion: It's all about the grinder. Here's the latest thread restating this recommendation: Why a used Super Jolly grinder should be on your wish list.

Before we get into grinders I want to fix this time problem. I could not find a procedure in my documentation. I did some internet searches and came up with some basics. There are two adjustments on the pump.I am looking for an adjustment procedure. So far the slowest water time is with the innermost adjustment all the way in, still not slow enough. 8 oz water in 23 seconds is too fast.

fxstsb wrote:Before we get into grinders I want to fix this time problem.

Babbie's rule if Fifteens:
Green beans will be good for fifteen months
Roasted Beans will be good for fifteen days
Ground beans will be good for fifteen minutes
Extracted beans will be good for fifteen seconds.

"Grinders make espresso. Espresso machines just get water hot and push it through the puck."

If the coffee isn't right, and the grinder isn't right, you have no hope of getting the espresso right.

I could probably make a better cuppa with a commercial grinder and a Krups machine than I could the other way around.
Before you start adjusting pump pressure, get good beans and a great grinder. Most everything else will take care of itself.

fxstsb wrote:Before we get into grinders I want to fix this time problem. I could not find a procedure in my documentation. I did some internet searches and came up with some basics. There are two adjustments on the pump.I am looking for an adjustment procedure. So far the slowest water time is with the innermost adjustment all the way in, still not slow enough. 8 oz water in 23 seconds is too fast.

The problem is the grinder.

Seems pretty emphatic and there is only one grinder. I haven't got the bonus to go out and buy a Super Jolly!! Something to look forward to.

Everyone is saying its the grinder, because it is! I know when you are starting it doesn't seem right, but think of it this way. The pump can provide a lot more water flow than the shot needs. This flow is limited by the resistance of the properly ground and tamped coffee. If the grinder isn't up to the task, the coffee will not provide the appropriate resistance, and it will come out fast. Even though it may look like your grinder is creating a fine ground, thats not enough. It needs to be a very consistent ground suitable for espresso, and for that you need a minimum standard of grinder, which you do not have.

Fix that. Your attempts to adjust the bypass valve on the pump will be futile and will likely then cause you grief when you do get a suitable grinder.

Cheers, Chris

I am reading this with great interest. I am having similar problem with Rocky. Actually, I cannot make it grind any finer since any more adjustment and it will be metal on metal. If I make correct dose, it will be no more than 12g to have it underneath or lever with the ridge. If I overdose slightly, distribute very carefully, knock it down to remove the air and tamp it more than 15kg, the puck will get destroyed by screw or in worse scenario by the shower screen. The extraction time is still bit faster than I would like to have (often with channeling. I do not really know what other guys are talking about when they leveling grind with the edge of PF. I would not fit it in my Silvia at all. Hence my dilemma.

I cannot grind any finer, I cannot overdose and I am stuck with extraction time. Am I in the market for different PF or is it me? Any suggestions, please? BTW the equipment is 1 month old and I have fresh beans - maybe I am too old

You don't need a new pf, but if you feel you could do with a deeper basket to get a little more coffee in it, then they are inexpensive. I like the Synesso ones myself, but I think your machine has a standard 58mm PF so any should fit. Try a search on baskets, from memory there are plenty. Can't offer any advice on your combo directly as I've never had a Silvia.

Cheers, Chris

cmelak wrote:Actually, I cannot make it grind any finer since any more adjustment and it will be metal on metal.

Have you done the Teflon mod? Rocky's well known for thread slop, which may account for uneven grounds with inadequate fines for a proper pour. Another possibility is that the burrs are shot; see How to know grinder burrs are worn out? for more.

cmelak wrote:BTW the equipment is 1 month old and I have fresh beans - maybe I am too old

If it's any comfort, you're in good company. Search under 'Rancilio Silvia and Rocky' in the Espresso Machines FAQs for many similar tales of woe. The good news is that after much weeping and gnashing of teeth, most owners are happy with Silvia... until they invariably upgrade.

Neener, neener, neener! I have a Super Jolly. I have only made a couple of cups with it BUT, I do see a difference. I will have to play with it for awhile to give a fair report. Meanwhile I found a great place to buy coffee and tea. Nuance. They have a great but small staff. a coffee sommelier and tea sommelier too.

Psyd wrote:Babbie's rule if Fifteens:
Green beans will be good for fifteen months
Roasted Beans will be good for fifteen days
Ground beans will be good for fifteen minutes
Extracted beans will be good for fifteen seconds.

"Grinders make espresso. Espresso machines just get water hot and push it through the puck."

If the coffee isn't right, and the grinder isn't right, you have no hope of getting the espresso right.

I could probably make a better cuppa with a commercial grinder and a Krups machine than I could the other way around.
Before you start adjusting pump pressure, get good beans and a great grinder. Most everything else will take care of itself.

Guess I will get shot after this one.
My best coffee has always been through a little inexpensive device called an Air Pump.

cmelak wrote:I am having similar problem with Rocky. Actually, I cannot make it grind any finer since any more adjustment and it will be metal on metal.

Some Rocky's just can't grind fine enough to make espresso. I once tore one offender down, measured everything as good, scrupulously reassembled. The grinder went a notch or two closer to zero, but still could not grind fine enough to make espresso on the Vibiemme. 18g in a 14g basket still flowed like water. Since it's 'new,' see if you can exchange the grinder under warranty.

fxstsb wrote:Guess I will get shot after this one.
My best coffee has always been through a little inexpensive device called an Air Pump.

To each their own.