Balances-electronic or mechanical?

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rpavlis
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#1: Post by rpavlis »

A few minutes ago the postman brought an Ohaus mechanical Cent-o-gram balance. I had a Dial-O-gram balance before that I found in a dumpster! This replacement came from an ebay store. It is in close to new condition for less than $40. The problem with the Dial-O-gram, I found, is that it is difficult to keep "zeroed" when temperatures change. Furthermore, since I recovered it from a dumpster, its condition is not the greatest, and it has substantial rust because it was probably used in a laboratory with corrosive vapours.

When we used the Dial-O-grams and Cent-O-grams in general chemistry laboratory courses, we found that the Cent-O-gram was generally more accurate, and easier to keep that way.

At one point I used an electronic one for espresso. We use these also for students in general chemistry laboratory. They do fail from time to time, but often that seems to stem from students dramatically over loading them. They have to fail when students put 1000 grams on one designed for 50 grams maximum load!

I personally prefer the mechanical devices, because I detest un necessary electrical things used in food and drink preparation when mechanical things work as well or better. It seems natural to use this with lever espresso machines and grinders like the Hg-one! I especially dislike constantly changing batteries or having extraneous electrical cords.

I suspect that this balance will still be in useable condition unless abused for decades, rather than months or years like their electrical analogues!

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rpavlis (original poster)
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#2: Post by rpavlis (original poster) »

I forgot to mention in the previous post that there are two very different purposes for weighing devices:

(1) To determine the mass of an object or given quantity of material.

(2) To weigh out a specific mass of a material.

For purpose #1, when weighing objects or fixed samples, electronic balances are MUCH easier. One can simply put the object or sample on the balance pan and the mass appears on the electronic digital read out.

For purpose #2, however, I have always found mechanical balances far easier and faster. One can, depending on the style of mechanical balance, set it to weigh the desired mass. Then one can transfer, bit by bit, the material to the pan until it "balances." This is what one does when one measures out given masses of coffee, for example. When doing this with electronic balances one puts a little on the pan, waits until the readout appears, and then repeats this again and again until the read out shows the desired mass.

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jpender
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#3: Post by jpender »

I have an Ohaus Cent-O-Gram scale. It works pretty well despite being a bit old and worn.

I used it for a long time and then one day bought a pocket electronic centigram scale from Amazon for $15. It has the same range and resolution and, from testing, the same precision and accuracy. But the electronic scale is miles easier to use, to carry, to weigh a dose with. It is so much faster than waiting for the Cent-O-Gram, even with its magnetic dampers, to pendulum into position. The only thing the mechanical scale has on its battery operated pocket replacement (yes, I wrote replacement) is that it will hold a mass in balance for minutes, hours, days even, whereas the pocket scale shuts off automatically after a few minutes.

It makes me a little sad to see the mechanical scale sitting there, unused and unloved. Well the last part isn't quite true. I still love it. I just don't use it anymore.

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another_jim
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#4: Post by another_jim »

I've often wondered why people like mechanical watches; I like them myself, but don't really know why. More generally, why do people prefer a simpler technology, like lever machines or hand grinders, when a more advanced one can make life easier?

Most people who enjoy the simpler technology says it does things better or more directly; but I think in most cases that's bullsh*t. I think it's more about the challenge:
  • Any moron can design and build an accurate quartz watch.
  • It takes skill to build an accurate mechanical watch
  • It's impossible to build an accurate and workable water clock
So if you enjoy good engineering as much as mere functionality, you'll wear a mechanical watch, put the water clock in a museum, and leave the microprocessors to where there is an actual challenge in using them well, like Iphones.

I have a feeling our lever and hand grinder lovers are more about this than about straight functionality.
Jim Schulman

OldNuc
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#5: Post by OldNuc »

One of the major reasons for going mechanical, or basic electrical mechanical is that it can be maintained and repaired or rebuilt. Basic electrical motors and switches are repairable or rebuildable while electronics eventually are not. Vacuum tubes are now collectors items or just not available. Solid state electronics may be repairable if discreet components but if integrated circuits you are out of luck. An Acutron watch can be repaired or rebuilt but at a very high cost and not all will be repairable/rebuildable. All/most of these grinders and espresso machines with embedded processors are made with proprietary ICs and when the electronics dies they are finished. Electronic components have a service life in the 20 year range. The hand grinder and straight lever machine will still be cranking out good shots long after the latest digital equipment has been relegated to boat anchor duty.

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another_jim
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#6: Post by another_jim »

With all due respect, that is more pretend-rationality. The cost of repairing one of the old school mechanical items is usually more than buying a new electronic gizmo, which are so cheap that repairing them is pointless.

Mechanical devices take skills to make well; electronics takes a high tech factory. Mechanical devices are intelligible to anyone willing to look at them closely; their electronic successors need to be reverse engineered in a high tech lab to be understood. It's certainly pleasurable to be surrounded by things that are intelligible and well made, rather than unintelligible and mass produced; but rational?
Jim Schulman

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Randy G.
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#7: Post by Randy G. »

OldNuc wrote: Vacuum tubes are now collectors items or just not available.
That's not actually true. I have a pro-quality vac tube harmonica amplifier sitting behind me tight now and they are still made. The tubes are still available and are still being made (albeit in lesser quantities than in decades past). Also have an old Electar tube amp.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done

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drgary
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#8: Post by drgary »

another_jim wrote: So if you enjoy good engineering as much as mere functionality, you'll wear a mechanical watch, put the water clock in a museum, and leave the microprocessors to where there is an actual challenge in using them well, like Iphones.

I have a feeling our lever and hand grinder lovers are more about this than about straight functionality.
Yes, there are the simplicity and durability of mechanical products. But there's a usage difference too. You engage more senses and skills in using mechanical objects. With a hand grinder you can feel the hardness of the beans you're grinding. With a manual lever, especially, you feel the resistance of the coffee to the water being pressed through it, and you can do pressure profiling on the fly -- no need for an expensive profiling pump machine. You develop additional skills just as a roaster who goes by sound, smell and color has an advantage over one who's mainly following a digital profile.
Gary
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rpavlis (original poster)
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#9: Post by rpavlis (original poster) »

I contend that many needlessly electronic devices are electronic in order to get them into land fills quicker so their vendors can sell replacements! Many things that are constantly being thrown away in this throw away society are robbing future generations of resources. Why should we make commercial items out of junk and have huge land fills to hold this trash!? Is it not better to have a high quality item than a piece of junk that we throw out shortly after acquiring it? A new item that is badly made is a piece of junk from the day it arrives on the scene, even when it is disguised as something else. The disguise is soon discovered!

We really should evaluate on an item by item whether anything is gained by electronic additions. With balances it is clear to me that electronic systems are great for weighing objects. However, I find I can weigh out specific quantities of material faster with mechanical devices. (And I do not constantly have to be replacing batteries or connecting power cords.)

I would much rather have an high quality Seiki or Wustof knife than a piece of electrical junk to slice food! Of course I want a heavy duty electric mixer when it is required. One really needs to evaluate on a case to case basis what REALLY is the most convenient. Often the annoyance of battery changings, electric cords, premature failure make the mechanical device dramatically superior.

With many cooking preparations I like the mechanical devices because I am controlling what is happening. That certainly extends to espresso making. One has control over the hand grinder or the fully manual lever machine that is missing otherwise.

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JohnB.
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#10: Post by JohnB. »

The batteries in my $5-$7 electronic scales last 18-24 months & my grinder stays plugged in so no power cord to mess with. Personally I found that having to crank a hand grinder every time I wanted a shot was much more annoying then batteries or cords. My Lido 2 is resting peacefully awaiting our next road trip. :D
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