Another water question: Matching your water to a roaster's water for perfection?

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
User avatar
canuckcoffeeguy
Posts: 1286
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

We all know how important water is for any brew method. There are umpteen threads about pursuing the ultimate water for the perfect cup.

But when a roaster is refining their roasts, the fact is they're using a certain type of water with a certain composition. It may be some filtered version of their local source, or a specifically designed super water.

I was at a Toronto coffee event some months back and I was chatting with a local roaster.

She said roasters may have to start thinking about their water in the context of the end user. Since people across the country could have very different water from what roasters are using to make their coffee, which then affects how they tweak roasting parameters in their labs. The roaster may end up with a roast that only works well with a certain water composition.

This could explain why some people can't get a certain coffee to work for them, no matter how well they nail every other variable.

Thoughts?

User avatar
JavaBuzz
Posts: 104
Joined: 9 years ago

#2: Post by JavaBuzz »

I agree that water can significantly affect the flavor. I think sometimes you can compensate a little for "just okay" water by adjusting the steep and/or grind size (for a basic example, TDS is a little too low, brew a little longer and/or grind a little finer; probably won't be quite as good as good coffee water, but better than it would have been).

I'm guessing, for most people, even weighing their coffee is extreme, so adding water parameters (TDS, pH, etc) to the coffee might just add to the confusion. :) Would probably want to keep the water recommendations simple (best with filtered water, etc.)

I suppose you could reverse the above, and have the roaster test the coffee with different types of water, and maybe give a generic recommendation like "tastes best with balanced to hard water," or try to find a roast level that tastes best with various types of water, etc.

41fivestar
Posts: 31
Joined: 8 years ago

#3: Post by 41fivestar »

Yup!

This is why certain roasters only taste good from their shops. I won't name names, but I've definitely been to a few. I'd love to see the numbers of bags sold through a lighter roaster vs a darker roaster in a retail shop. I would put money on the darker coffee selling better.

When I was roasting professionally, I roasted a bit darker to try to get as much sweetness out of the coffee as possible. This also lead to a larger window where the coffee tasted good.

User avatar
canuckcoffeeguy (original poster)
Posts: 1286
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by canuckcoffeeguy (original poster) »

41fivestar wrote:Yup!

This is why certain roasters only taste good from their shops. I won't name names, but I've definitely been to a few.
So maybe we'll see a bigger push to standardize water composition for coffee. I know LA Marzocco is starting to talk about water quality publicly. And they have an LM water kit hitting the market soon. And there is the Water For Coffee book. This may steer the industry toward standardization... If everyone can agree on what makes for optimal water.

OldNuc
Posts: 2973
Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by OldNuc »

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:.... If everyone can agree on what makes for optimal water.
I do not see that happening anytime soon. There is a very long list of reasons for the inability to standardize. Now if you could get the roaster to even provide a meaningful detailed analysis of their water used in setting the roasting parameters that would be a step forward.

Marcelnl
Posts: 3831
Joined: 10 years ago

#6: Post by Marcelnl »

Get the roaster to roast to your water sounds like a better plan, that is...to the dommon denominator of the water of his customers, or find a a gold standard bottled water to refer to.
LMWDP #483

Shife
Posts: 552
Joined: 9 years ago

#7: Post by Shife »

Water sources are not static in composition. They fluctuate and are quite variable. Years ago I worked for a municipal fresh water plant. We were drawing from any number of 14 different wells around the city. 7 wells were usually online at a givent time. You won't notice this if you simply drink a glass of water from the tap, but attempting to match the exact composition of water a roaster is using to cup their seeds is going to be very difficult. The level you all are discussing would require RO or distillation with the "rebuilding" of the water through carefully controlled mineral addition. The home market for this has got to be nearly nil. It either requires tedious measurement and manual addition of minerals, or very expensive equipment.

I can see a handful of fanatical home users doing this, but I absolutely do not see this becoming a norm or even something that the average coffee buff is aware of.

OldNuc
Posts: 2973
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by OldNuc »

Marcelnl wrote:Get the roaster to roast to your water sounds like a better plan, that is...to the dommon denominator of the water of his customers, or find a a gold standard bottled water to refer to.
Experience shows that bottled water is less than consistent. If you want a universal standard then there are 2 choices, steam distilled or deionized through a final monobed column.

I use a steam distiller and process 45 gallons as a batch, works just fine. This is not for the majority though.

User avatar
canuckcoffeeguy (original poster)
Posts: 1286
Joined: 10 years ago

#9: Post by canuckcoffeeguy (original poster) »

Shife wrote:Water sources are not static in composition. They fluctuate and are quite variable. Years ago I worked for a municipal fresh water plant. We were drawing from any number of 14 different wells around the city. 7 wells were usually online at a givent time. You won't notice this if you simply drink a glass of water from the tap, but attempting to match the exact composition of water a roaster is using to cup their seeds is going to be very difficult. The level you all are discussing would require RO or distillation with the "rebuilding" of the water through carefully controlled mineral addition. The home market for this has got to be nearly nil. It either requires tedious measurement and manual addition of minerals, or very expensive equipment.

I can see a handful of fanatical home users doing this, but I absolutely do not see this becoming a norm or even something that the average coffee buff is aware of.
Yeah so maybe the solution is for roasters to ensure their products are forgiving in terms of water types. So they work well with a wider range of potential water compositions.

If a roast only works well within a narrow water range, then they risk the home user, no matter how skilled, getting bad results. And that's not great for the business of selling more beans and building a reputation among consumers.

We hear lots of stories of how a great reputable roaster just won't work for some home users. Sometimes the home barista is not doing something right. But sometimes it might be a water mismatch. So it's basically about making sure your product is more user friendly.

Marcelnl
Posts: 3831
Joined: 10 years ago

#10: Post by Marcelnl »

OldNuc wrote:Experience shows that bottled water is less than consistent. If you want a universal standard then there are 2 choices, steam distilled or deionized through a final monobed column.

I use a steam distiller and process 45 gallons as a batch, works just fine. This is not for the majority though.
Universal? Like in world series again :D steam distilled water is not a real option in mainland Europe but there would be a psossibility to classify the mineral content for which a coffee works best. But I agree that roasting towards 'regular' water woukd be a better solution so the roaster and the barista can meet in the middle...
LMWDP #483

Post Reply